CC in church

This is a discussion on CC in church within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What is the big deal about carrying in church? In SC you are supposed to get permission from the church pastor before CCing in church. ...

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Thread: CC in church

  1. #1
    Member Array aelancaster's Avatar
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    Question CC in church

    What is the big deal about carrying in church? In SC you are supposed to get permission from the church pastor before CCing in church. Why? Can someone please give me the thought process that went into this?
    Thanks.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    I think down here in the Bible Belt it has to do with the line of thinking that church (and sunday in general) is sacred somehow, and that weapons = violence so they should not be allowed in church. We can't sell alochol on Sundays based on the same "principles"
    I think it's hogwash.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    There is no logic....it's all emotion.

    You're supposed to FEEL safe in church...

    BGs don't see it that way.

    Personally, I don't see why there need to be special "victim zones" spelled out in law.
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    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    For the same reason guns are banned a lot of places.... no good reason.
    Thankfully here in TN I can carry in any church I want w/o asking anyone and I do so every sunday.
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    These laws are begging review under freedom of religion and the oft chanted mantra of separation of church and state.
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    JT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tala View Post
    I think down here in the Bible Belt it has to do with the line of thinking that church (and sunday in general) is sacred somehow, and that weapons = violence so they should not be allowed in church.
    Funny, I find most "Bible Belt" churches to be more open to concealed carry than churches in other parts of the county (like the north-east and mid-west).
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    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Yeah, many states don't have laws like that. Here in AZ it's perfectly legal for the good guys to be armed. I know, I am the pastor at my church and I take my responsibility to protect the flock seriously.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelancaster View Post
    What is the big deal about carrying in church? Can someone please give me the thought process that went into this?
    In a nutshell, IMO: power corrupts; lawmakers make laws, even if they can't come up with good ones; laws criminalizing gun ownership/behavior end up controlling only upstanding people, since criminals simply ignore such laws; such infringement of gun ownership and carrying of guns is done despite the 2A and most state constitutions having iron-clad statements that political hacks shall not have the power to do such infringement; and many individual police departments or officers will take the control they've been given to an N'th degree, exacerbating an already-bad situation into something truly intolerable. In the end, you get restrictions here, there, and everywhere, even so bad as what Chicago and the District of Columbia put in place. If guns are bad, then certainly some places should never need any guns ... like churches, schools of children, anyplace chock full of government worker weenies (despite equal protection under the law being the law of the land), etc.

    Reality is, until we get iron-clad SCOTUS rulings on the 2A regarding the iron-clad and simple meaning of "shall not be infringed" and "to keep and bear arms," then we're going to continue to get silly little political hacks that believe they can write-up foolish, unconstitutional laws that infringe on this, that or the other aspect of owning or carrying guns by citizens. Only when SCOTUS has ruled that infringement means futzing with something, and that none of it shall be tolerated under pain of death/imprisonment/whatever; that bearing of arms means to carry something, no matter when or where; and that arms means weaponry of any sort; and that other laws on actual behavior (ie, against murder, rape, kidnapping, robbery, assault, etc) shall be the standards by which we gauge criminality with respect to firearms ... until then, we're going to have to suffer through the foolish outcomes of such criminal, unconstitutional sidestepping of the intent of the 2A. My $0.03.

    I'm fairly pleased I live in a state that hasn't deluded itself into believing that mere possession of a firearm needs to be equated with crime simply because some government putz says it does. Instead, Oregon basically requires a criminal act be committed by a person with that gun, before the gun is considered a problem. That's as it should be, IMO, since in the morning wearing a firearm for people who do it daily isn't any more of a problem than wearing socks or shoes. In and of themselves, defensive weapons are NOT hardly threats to anyone, unless criminally deployed against someone. It really is that simple.
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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT View Post
    Funny, I find most "Bible Belt" churches to be more open to concealed carry than churches in other parts of the county (like the north-east and mid-west).
    My thoughts exactly!

    What it really boils down to is "Private Property Rights".

    A church, just like your home is "private" property. Thus, the owner/caretaker of that property has the "Right" to decide if they want a gun on their property.

    Though a property owner also has the "Right" to choose who is allowed to carry a gun on their property, "YOU" as an individual, have the Right "NOT" to attend a church that will not let you CC. (Just like you can choose NOT to patronize a business that is posted or visit the home of an AG'er)

    I think those of us who support 2ndAM rights make the same mistake those on the left make; when we start demanding that "ONE" constitutional right is greater than another.

    IMO;
    IF the government "FORCES" the church to allow CC, it becomes a violation of the "Freedom of Religion" afforded us by the "Constitution"; as well as an owners "Private Poperty Rights".
    In the "SAME" train of thought, LAWS restricting CC in church does the same thing. (Violates the 2nd AM)

    (Personally, I think a law that allows the "owners" of private property to decide if they want to allow CC on their property is the "only" way a law about CC can be fair.)

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    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    For the same reason guns are banned a lot of places.... no good reason.
    Thankfully here in TN I can carry in any church I want w/o asking anyone and I do so every sunday.
    Atta girl!
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    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    I agree with that...

    I agree with tcox... Good point! Though I don't see why it should be only churches that get to make the decision. I'd think that any private property owner could make the same restriction. Public places would be subject to different rules.Jesuswithgunaction.jpg
    Last edited by DoctorBob; July 20th, 2010 at 12:02 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT View Post
    Funny, I find most "Bible Belt" churches to be more open to concealed carry than churches in other parts of the county (like the north-east and mid-west).
    I meant, I believe that's how the law here "no carry in a place of worship" came about. In actual practice, yes most of the south is pro-guns.
    In actual practice we all stock up on liquor on Saturday night to drink it on Sunday. Stupid laws really.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    There is no logic....it's all emotion.

    You're supposed to FEEL safe in church...

    BGs don't see it that way.

    Personally, I don't see why there need to be special "victim zones" spelled out in law.

    Excellent post!

    Best!
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    Member Array Grantspastor's Avatar
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    My home state of Oregon has no law prohibiting carry in Church....and I do....and i'm the Pastor

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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    I agree with tcox... Good point! Though I don't see why it should be only churches that get to make the decision. I'd think that any private property owner could make the same restriction. Public places would be subject to different rules.Jesuswithgunaction.jpg
    I agree.
    I think the CC laws are just bass-ackwards.

    I believe an "American" citizen should have the right to carry onto any publicly owned property. (With the "possible" exception of a courthouse & polling place)

    I also believe that it should be left up to a "private" property owner or "private" business owner whether or not carrying of firearms on their premise is allowed.

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