Signs Prohibiting CCH in NC...any standards or conformity?

Signs Prohibiting CCH in NC...any standards or conformity?

This is a discussion on Signs Prohibiting CCH in NC...any standards or conformity? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; According to North Carolina State Law you cannot carry : Where notice of carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous ...

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  1. #1
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    Signs Prohibiting CCH in NC...any standards or conformity?

    According to North Carolina State Law you cannot carry : Where notice of carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement.

    Does anyone know if these signs must conform to a state guideline? Can it just be any old sign with any dimensions with any wording a business chooses?

    I was at JR in Selma last weekend. No sign posted at the entrance I went in. Yet on the outside of the door you exit (there is one exit and it does not double as an entrance.) there is a small sign that says "Absolutely no weapons allowed on premises."

    Only reason I saw it was I went out ahead of my wife and while I waited I turned back towards the exit door to see if she was coming out. They do have armed security guards (carrying Glocks) but the sign and its unusual placement is pretty confusing.

    So, if anyone knows whether or not there is more specific legislation regarding these no carry signs and where I can learn more about it please point me in the right direction.


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    The way my cc instructor (an NC DOJ employee) explained it to me is that NC has limited and spotty enforcement of that particular law. The example he gave was our local mall. The main mall entrances were posted with signs saying "No Firearms". However, the "anchor" store entrances were not posted. You could walk in an anchor store entrance and then proceed into the mall and be legal as that entrance wasn't posted.

    He explained that one of his former students was the VP of one of the big name stores (Belk's, I think), and he said he welcomed legal concealed carriers and would not post signs on any of his stores.

    The intimation to us was that the DA would have to be hard pressed to take you to court on this one, but its helps not to be flagrant about it, or push your luck with places that are obviously posted with very visible signs. The botton line: what would a jury believe?
    Last edited by MadMac; July 22nd, 2010 at 07:03 PM.

  3. #3
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    I've never seen a notice at my local mall (Crabtree) nor are they really prevalent in my area. I think JR was the first one I've seen and its strange placement really has me scratching my head.

    I appreciate the response and advice. Just wish the law wasn't so vague. I guess any sign will do.

  4. #4
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    There really is not case law on this right now, but the convential wisdom seems to be that for such notice to be "conspicuous"... it must at least be posted on EVERY entrance to a given property to be enforceable.

    I just don't work very hard to find them - if the they are not obvious as I enter I don't stop and look for them :)

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwatMedic338 View Post
    I've never seen a notice at my local mall (Crabtree) nor are they really prevalent in my area. I think JR was the first one I've seen and its strange placement really has me scratching my head.

    I appreciate the response and advice. Just wish the law wasn't so vague. I guess any sign will do.
    I believe Crabtree Mall was his example. I hate going to any mall, but last time I was at Crabtree, I believe I saw them. They are posted low on the main doors into the mall proper. As you turn off Route 70 and drive up to the main doors, look low.

    ...and tflhndn, that is one fugly shirt, bro.....

  6. #6
    Member Array Joeface's Avatar
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    At Concord Mills near me none of the doors are posted, but just inside the doors are the Mall rules and it is stated there. As stated before I usually enter through Bass Pro(anchor store) which is not posted, but you could say that on the wall is conspicous. Who's interpretation do you trust. Do you hope to get a conservative judge, not anymore. To the OP the law just states that it must be posted, there are no specifications to how or what, if they wrote it in grape jelly on a piece of bread and stuck it to the door, I bet you can find a prosecutor who would try the case and a judge who would convict.

    7. any premises, except state owned rest areas or stops along the highways, where
    notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a
    conspicuous notice, or statement by the person in legal possession or control
    of the premises.
    N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(c)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeface View Post
    if they wrote it in grape jelly on a piece of bread and stuck it to the door, I bet you can find a prosecutor who would try the case and a judge who would convict.
    Sadly the way the law is written you are correct. I was hoping there was some clearer clarification somewhere on the books but I guess it does not exist.

  8. #8
    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    Probably the sign you saw at JRs was a manager complying with the order from corporate to post a no weapon sign and since he is pro gun he did as told lol only to have you read it if you are observant on the way out LOL.
    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  9. #9
    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    Oh, and the other thing is do what we did when the signs went up at Rocky Mount and Wilson walmarts. We went to managment, had them call corporate office and they came down as qickly as they went up. Also, Piggly Wiggly had posted signs. We complained, explained it only stopped the good guys and the GRNC group went to the headquarters of Piggly Wiggly, signs came down. Get active, let business know that those signs only stop the good guys and that the bad guys can't read lol.
    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly, I believe that one of the requirements in NC is for the sign to be conspicuous. I can't remember if there is also a requirement for it to be placed so many feet from the ground and sides of the entrance. When I lived in North Raleigh, I used to go to Crabtree Valley Mall at least once every couple of weeks and never noticed a sign; same thing with JRs in Selma.
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
    ¡Cuánto duele crecer, cuan hondo es el dolor de alzarse en puntillas y observar con temblores de angustia, esa cosa tremenda, que es la vida del hombre! - René Marqués

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    There is no standard for signs in NC other than stating the sign must be conspicuous. If you notice a sign enough to wonder if it's legal then you probably have answered your own question. I always tell my students that if there is any doubt, don't carry. If you disagree, write the powers to be and let them know but don't risk loosing your permit by ignoring the signs.

    Is it worth the chance that you will loose your permit to carry permanently if found guilty? Remember if you go to trial you will be getting people who more than likely don't carry and will be in favor of the signs.

  12. #12
    Member Array Jay Frame's Avatar
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    I have been traveling to NC on business a lot this year. Stayed at the Holiday Inn, and at the La Quinta. Not posted. Been at Micro Tel for the last 3 weeks, posted. Am I going to leave my pistol out in the motel (read that to mean steal-me) parking lot all night? No. I carry it to my room and back in my brief case. What can I do? I would think that not carrying it on my person would show that I am trying to comply with the spirit of the law, but, I am sure that there are cops and prosecutors who would love to make an example of me.

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Your hotel room should be cool. Please note: IANAL.

    Please spend more here - we need your tax monies. The governor is another tax-and-spend lunatic.

  14. #14
    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    No clue about NC, I only know Missouri's standards:

    571.107. ... No ... concealed carry endorsement ... shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:

    ...

    (15) Any private property whose owner has posted the premises as being off-limits to concealed firearms by means of one or more signs displayed in a conspicuous place of a minimum size of eleven inches by fourteen inches with the writing thereon in letters of not less than one inch. ...
    My future place of employment has white letters on a glass door facing into the building on the further-in set of windows, with an overall size of maybe ten inches by four inches and letters of maybe one inch on the first line only... So not conspicuous and not the minimum size. However two things would prevent my carry (if I was old enough):

    1. The rest of Subsection 15 states that employers may prohibit concealed carry and only need a sign if the building is open to the public, as to prevent non-employees from carrying.

    2. While this sign could not be enforced with anyone simply visiting our lobby since it does not meet state requirements, the prohibiting can be enforced on employees in a different way. Missouri is an at-will employment state, so while I could quit at any time for any reason, my employment can also be terminated at any time for any reason... They could terminate my employment because I spilled yogurt on their new carpet if they want. Therefore, breaking company policy and carrying a weapon anyway would almost certainly be cause for termination of employment if I were to be discovered.

  15. #15
    Member Array FatPants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwatMedic338 View Post
    I've never seen a notice at my local mall (Crabtree) nor are they really prevalent in my area. I think JR was the first one I've seen and its strange placement really has me scratching my head.

    I appreciate the response and advice. Just wish the law wasn't so vague. I guess any sign will do.
    Crabtree mall is DEFINITELY posted at every entrance that I have been in and out of.

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