What exactly is a backup gun? - Page 3

What exactly is a backup gun?

This is a discussion on What exactly is a backup gun? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's an interesting take on BUGs: The would-be assassin of President Andrew Jackson had both his primary and his BUG fail when he went to ...

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Thread: What exactly is a backup gun?

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting take on BUGs:

    The would-be assassin of President Andrew Jackson had both his primary and his BUG fail when he went to kill Jackson at point blank range. Jackson beat the man with his cane.

    You guys better be carrying at least three pistolas on you, if you want be sure....


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    I carry a Diamondback .380 as a "get off me gun". I use to carry a S&W 638. I carry it on the off side at the beltline. On duty my external vest covers it and off duty my Tommy Bahama does the job. Last ditch final answer to "when violence is the answer it is the only answer".
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  3. #33
    Member Array quikduk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Maybe you're familar with the term "New York reload"--i.e. going to a second gun before reloading your primary...way-back-when NYPD only had revolvers and no moon clips (but had to load one round at a time into the cylinder)

    I do not carry a BUG regularly, but when I do, it's on the ankle (Kahr MK9)...usually reserved for long drives...in addition to a primary carry gun.
    What ankle holster do you use with your MK?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Some advice:

    Have your BUG keep the same battery of arms as your primary ccw. For example my main ccw is a 1911. My BUG is a Sig 238 because it has the same battery as a full size 1911. When **** hits the fan you don't want to take the split second to change mindsets between weapons.
    I understand what you're saying, but my bug is a 5 shot snubbie...no mindset to it, just aim and pull the trigger
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Here's an interesting take on BUGs:

    The would-be assassin of President Andrew Jackson had both his primary and his BUG fail when he went to kill Jackson at point blank range. Jackson beat the man with his cane.

    You guys better be carrying at least three pistolas on you, if you want be sure....
    I hope the guns are a little more reliable these days!
    P.S. I would'nt have tried to assasinate that man with anything less than an armed squad as backup
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Here's an interesting take on BUGs:

    The would-be assassin of President Andrew Jackson had both his primary and his BUG fail when he went to kill Jackson at point blank range. Jackson beat the man with his cane.

    You guys better be carrying at least three pistolas on you, if you want be sure....
    On January 30, 1835, what is believed to be the first attempt to kill a sitting President of the United States occurred just outside the United States Capitol. When Jackson was leaving the Capitol out of the East Portico after the funeral of South Carolina Representative Warren R. Davis, Richard Lawrence, an unemployed and deranged housepainter from England, either burst from a crowd or stepped out from hiding behind a column and aimed a pistol at Jackson, which misfired. Lawrence then pulled out a second pistol, which also misfired. It has been postulated that moisture from the humid weather contributed to the double misfiring.[50] Lawrence was then restrained, with legend saying that Jackson attacked Lawrence with his cane, prompting his aides to restrain him. Others present, including David Crockett, restrained and disarmed Lawrence.
    Well good thing I don't carry two flintlock pistols

    I like to believe that technology has improved a little over the last 175 years
    Colt New Agent, Dan Wesson V-Bob, Glock 19,20SF, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30SF, 36, Kahr P380 w/CT, PM9, PM45, CW9(SOLD), Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, PF9(SOLD), Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II, Stainless Pro TLE/RL II (SOLD), Rohrbaugh R9s, Ruger LCP w/CT, LCR, SP101 S&W J-Frame 638 w/CT, M&P 340 w/CT, Walther PPK/S

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatail View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but my bug is a 5 shot snubbie...no mindset to it, just aim and pull the trigger
    +1
    Colt New Agent, Dan Wesson V-Bob, Glock 19,20SF, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30SF, 36, Kahr P380 w/CT, PM9, PM45, CW9(SOLD), Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, PF9(SOLD), Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II, Stainless Pro TLE/RL II (SOLD), Rohrbaugh R9s, Ruger LCP w/CT, LCR, SP101 S&W J-Frame 638 w/CT, M&P 340 w/CT, Walther PPK/S

  8. #38
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO9489 View Post
    Well good thing I don't carry two flintlock pistols

    I like to believe that technology has improved a little over the last 175 years
    Thanks for the Google-fu.

    So, you're saying since pistol technology has improved, I don't need a BUG?

    /because, that was my point.

  9. #39
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    My Back up gun is a .357 Magnum Derringer at Point Blank range. If we get to dance, you are dead.
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
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  10. #40
    Member Array Spirit of 76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Here's an interesting take on BUGs:
    The would-be assassin of President Andrew Jackson had both his primary and his BUG fail when he went to kill Jackson at point blank range. Jackson beat the man with his cane.
    Conceal two flintlocks on your person? Now I know why they wore those long capes back in the day!
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  11. #41
    cmb
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    Senior Member Array cmb's Avatar
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    If I carried Flintlocks I'd actually carry 4 I think!

    A BUG just seems like the boyscout thing to do, a 12 ounce gun on your ankle or in your pocket is so easy and light... but we are all different and thankfully the manufacturers of firearms understand this and continue to give us what we need, and lure us into other purchases as well!

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Thanks for the Google-fu.

    So, you're saying since pistol technology has improved, I don't need a BUG?

    /because, that was my point.

    Incorrect. I'm saying that your argument against having TWO guns because they both can fail is flawed, because it is being based on a failed assassination from almost 200 years ago with obsolete technology. And if anything it would give somebody more reasons to carry two or three guns. Like you mentioned in your previous posts.

    I personally don't carry a BUG only because I think my primary will fail. In fact I don't ever think my primary will fail since I carry a Glock.

    I carry two or three guns for multiple reasons:
    1.)You run out of time

    2.)You run out of ammunition

    3.)Your primary gun malfunctions

    4.)Your primary gun is disabled

    5.)Your primary shooting hand is disabled

    6.)Your primary gun is lost

    7.)Your primary gun is inaccessible

    8.)You’re fighting over the primary gun

    9.)You’ve lost the fight over the primary gun

    10.)You need to arm a trusted other
    Colt New Agent, Dan Wesson V-Bob, Glock 19,20SF, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30SF, 36, Kahr P380 w/CT, PM9, PM45, CW9(SOLD), Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, PF9(SOLD), Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II, Stainless Pro TLE/RL II (SOLD), Rohrbaugh R9s, Ruger LCP w/CT, LCR, SP101 S&W J-Frame 638 w/CT, M&P 340 w/CT, Walther PPK/S

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    What is a back-up gun? A back-up gun is the Remington 870 pump gun that is not on me, but may be nearby.

    OK, seriously, my take on this is that any gun that is second (or further back) in line is momentarily the back-up gun, whether the "primary" of the moment is in the hand(s), or in the holster. So, if my hand is on my pocketed snubby as I walk through a area that gives me the creeps, the pocket snubby is primary for the moment, and the weapon at 0300 on the belt is the back-up for that moment in time, whether that 0300 weapon is a matching snubby, a P229, or a big sixgun. A parallel situation: When the President boards an airplane, it becomes Air Force One, even if it is not his usual airplane.

    OTOH, I find it perfectly acceptable to consider the smaller gun to be a back-up, because it is generally preferable to fight with one's larger weapon.

    I am left-handed, but right-armed; I may shoot a gun better as a lefty, but the draw is more natural with my right hand/arm. (Actually I shoot some guns better lefty, and some better rightie.) My right hand/arm used to be stronger, but chronic issues have made it the weaker side by now. So, I don't carry a back-up handgun; I carry two handguns. I do have a primary place on my anatomy where I virtually always carry a gun, that being at 0300; the second gun's location may vary a bit.

    I work night-shift big-city police patrol, and it is common for me to want a gun in my hand, proactively, for building/area searches and such, and so will often have a P229R, with light attached, in my left hand, while keeping another P229 in my duty holster. This is a good example of the usual "primary" gun switching roles, when the weapons themselves are the same model. (...except for one having an accessory rail.)

    BTW, in the FBI shootout with Platt and Matix, not only was one agent's only handgun hit and disabled, another agent lost his only handgun in the vehicle collisions, and two agents fired their back-up snubbies, for varying reasons. Of the latter, one had lost his primary sixgun in the collisions, and the other fired his snubby when his service pistol ran dry, though he subsequently reloaded his service pistol. Agent Mireles used both a shotgun and his revolver in the fight. The Supervisory Special Agent, whose hands were injured, interfering with reloading his sixgun, might well have been able to keep firing with a second gun. Indeed, by at least one account, he was shot in the neck when he got up to make his way back to his car, to get his shotgun. This incident was a microcosm of good guys needing more guns!

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO9489 View Post
    Incorrect. I'm saying that your argument against having TWO guns because they both can fail is flawed, because it is being based on a failed assassination from almost 200 years ago with obsolete technology. And if anything it would give somebody more reasons to carry two or three guns. Like you mentioned in your previous posts.

    I personally don't carry a BUG only because I think my primary will fail. In fact I don't ever think my primary will fail since I carry a Glock.

    I carry two or three guns for multiple reasons:
    1.)You run out of time

    2.)You run out of ammunition

    3.)Your primary gun malfunctions

    4.)Your primary gun is disabled

    5.)Your primary shooting hand is disabled

    6.)Your primary gun is lost

    7.)Your primary gun is inaccessible

    8.)You’re fighting over the primary gun

    9.)You’ve lost the fight over the primary gun

    10.)You need to arm a trusted other
    You forgot a couple scenarios to bolster your point:

    1) Just as the BG s approach, you walk under one of those giant magnets that pick up crushed cars, and your primary and BUG get sucked out of their holsters. Thankfully, your second bug is a Glock, so you can blast 'em with that one.

    2) Two BGs are firing at you in Dallas: one from the School Book Depository, and one from a grassy knoll nearby. The rifle bullet from the guy in the building ricochets off your primary, disabling it, and striking the governor of Texas. You try to give your wife your BUG, but she is jumping out of the convertible you're riding in. You fire back with your BUG wheel gun while the suspect is being escorted by police. The police mistake you for Jack Ruby.

    Hey, it COULD happen......


  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    One of my co-workers, who I did not know well at the time, though we have subsequently become closer, saved his life in the early 1980's with a back-up PPK. He is a big, strong guy, too, and I mean gym rat big and strong. He could not get his opponent's hands off of his duty pistol, so the PPK joined the fight, and ended it.

    I finished a duty shift in the mid-1980's, and got home to discover my duty sixgun's mainspring was in two pieces, rattling around inside the grip frame. I have been somewhat religious about back-up weapons since that time. To be clear, I don't always have more than one handgun on my person; not all weapons are firearms.

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