interesting convo with my local legal beagle

interesting convo with my local legal beagle

This is a discussion on interesting convo with my local legal beagle within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just got off the phone with my attorneys office. Unfortunately, my lawyer was in court today so I had to speak with one of ...

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Thread: interesting convo with my local legal beagle

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    interesting convo with my local legal beagle

    I just got off the phone with my attorneys office. Unfortunately, my lawyer was in court today so I had to speak with one of his associates who actually turned out to be a great help. I wanted to know if the 30.06 signs, (not what their called in Indiana, but I like that term better) had legal weight, that is to say would I be in violation of law if I carried concealed anyway and just didn't tell anyone or let anyone see my CCW. She informed me that the signs do not mean anything, but that if I refuse to leave or abide by the store policies when asked to leave or put my weapon in my vehicle I would be guilty of criminal trespass. So basically, do not get caught by the establishment. She then said "What I don't understand is why you would want to carry in a place that says no guns allowed." I simply replied, same reason I carry everywhere else, I am sure you understand that criminals prefer unarmed, defenseless targets and a place that does not allow weapons is one of those target rich places. All she said was, Good point. I think I did well, and I learned something too, all in all, a good conversation. (she sounded kind of cute too, think I might need to go have a face to face with my lawyer and see if he will introduce me
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    That pretty much agrees with FL laws to a "T." No legal weight, but must leave or take weapon out if asked.
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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    This issue has been discussed in length here....and the threads are very illuminating. I suggest you search for one or 2. While it does vary from state to state (in some you cannot igore the signs, in others only certain signs carry the wt of law, etc) it sounds like in your case...if you are found to be carrying a weapon, you are now 'trespassing' and the store owner can ask you to leave. If you do not, you can be arrested for trespassing.
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  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    but they have to ask you to leave in order for it to be trespassing, the act of ignoring the sign in and of itself is not trespassing
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    About the same as in OK. More specifically, our law says that business owners have a right to control the presence of firearms if they wish. This basically means the same thing as a furniture store telling you not to have food in the store. Even if they catch you, they can only ask you to leave.
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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    but they have to ask you to leave in order for it to be trespassing, the act of ignoring the sign in and of itself is not trespassing
    what about No trespassing signs...thats like saying I can go on any property I want as long as I don't get caught.
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    Member Array Dakota97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    what about No trespassing signs...thats like saying I can go on any property I want as long as I don't get caught.
    I don't think many businesses that are open to the public will have no trespassing signs. LOL
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    what about No trespassing signs...thats like saying I can go on any property I want as long as I don't get caught.
    Not really, no. When the signs say "No Trespassing" it's because people are not welcome there. The very act of entering that property is illegal and is specifically defined as a crime: trespassing.

    The public is welcome in stores, that's the whole point. Carrying into a store with a sign isn't defined as a crime in Oklahoma statutes. All the statutes say is that business and property owners have the right to control the presence of firearms if they wish. Just like the furniture store has the right to prohibit food. If carrying a firearm into a store with a no guns sign is a crime, then so is taking food into a furniture store that says no food, or taking food into a movie theater that says no outside food.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    This issue has been discussed in length here....and the threads are very illuminating. I suggest you search for one or 2. While it does vary from state to state (in some you cannot igore the signs, in others only certain signs carry the wt of law, etc) it sounds like in your case...if you are found to be carrying a weapon, you are now 'trespassing' and the store owner can ask you to leave. If you do not, you can be arrested for trespassing.
    This isn't something new...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    This issue has been discussed in length here....and the threads are very illuminating. I suggest you search for one or 2.
    FWIIW Bumper has said that the search function is not working very well and won't until he can get the search index rebuild.

    I know I can't find a lot of stuff, including my earlier post on this subject.

    IMHO, we need to be patient with replays, with each other, and, more importantly with all the effort needed working the bugs out of the new software.
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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    FWIIW Bumper has said that the search function is not working very well and won't until he can get the search index rebuild.

    I know I can't find a lot of stuff, including my earlier post on this subject.

    IMHO, we need to be patient with replays, with each other, and, more importantly with all the effort needed working the bugs out of the new software.
    FWIW, I worded that as nicely as I knew how since I've seen people be rude about it...and gave a reader's digest version.

    Sig guy seems to have missed that I suggested it at all.
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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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    There aren't that many of those in Indy, thank goodness, but I have always ignored them. VALUE CITY FURNITURE for one.

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota97 View Post
    I don't think many businesses that are open to the public will have no trespassing signs. LOL
    there are businesses that have no trespassing signs posted...they are for non-business hours...it may seem funny but loitering even on the property when a business is closed can be construed as trespassing...you are welcome during the day and are invited to come in just as you would be on a friensds posted property...but when the business is not open you are trespassing if you try to enter...so simply stated the signs are posted for a reason...it supports legal action if you are caught there after business hours...

    and in the op it was stated "So basically, do not get caught by the establishment"...that may be kind of misconstrued depending on how it is read....it is ok to be caught by the establishment as long as you comply when they ask you to leave...they have no legal recourse unless you refuse to leave...although i take it you meant dont get caught and you wont have to leave....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    FWIW, I worded that as nicely as I knew how since I've seen people be rude about it...
    FWIIW, Nor I didn't mean to come across as suggesting that you were rude.

    It's just that I couldn't find the earlier threads/post on this subject and think we all need to take a deep breath, myself included.

    I don't know which frustrates me more:

    1) repeated threads w/o new application

    or

    2) when I do a search before posting, only to find I missed it (old or new software)

    I suspect it is # 2 -- and I've done it to dang often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    She then said "What I don't understand is why you would want to carry in a place that says no guns allowed." I simply replied, same reason I carry everywhere else, I am sure you understand that criminals prefer unarmed, defenseless targets and a place that does not allow weapons is one of those target rich places. All she said was, Good point.
    Her thought process is a bit scary...........you answered her very well. That's what she needed to hear.
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