Being disarmed unconsciously

Being disarmed unconsciously

This is a discussion on Being disarmed unconsciously within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What up fellas, I have a CHP from VA and I have to travel into MD and DC which are anti guns places, for my ...

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Thread: Being disarmed unconsciously

  1. #1
    Member Array JXONE's Avatar
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    Being disarmed unconsciously

    What up fellas, I have a CHP from VA and I have to travel into MD and DC which are anti guns places, for my work. I've been working in these places more and more. And noticed that I carry my mace and pocket knife more then my carry gun. Feels like I've being disarmed unconsciously. How do you guys ( and girls) deal with this?


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    How else can you deal with it besides just accepting it? You have to go places that you can't legally carry... There's really nothing you can do but follow the law.

    Been there, done that. .. Lots of times.

    It's frustrating but you do the best with what you have left. You carry your pepper spray and your knife and if you are still vigilant and careful you will more-than-likely not have a problem. It's all anyone in your situation can do.

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    No....you're not being disarmed "unconsciously"...you're just working in places that prohibit self-defense with a personally carried firearm.

    You're only disarmed if your brain is disengaged....

    Self-defense doesn't start or end with a firearm.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Distinguished Member Array pcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post

    Self-defense doesn't start or end with a firearm.
    That's a great way to look at it. I really only carry on the weekends and on my days off throughout the week because my work doesn't allow it either. That doesn't mean I don't carry pepper spray or a knife. Also means I don't stop watching my surroundings and keeping an eye on people.

    A gun is just a tool, your mindset is your true self defense.
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    Senior Member Array Katana's Avatar
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    Just out of curiousity, but isn't a carry permit required for pepper spray in Maryland? I'd hate to see something happen and you get in trouble for defending yourself.

    I've got a good friend who's moving to the Baltimore area soon for work, and I was pretty sure this was mentioned. Perhaps it's not all of the state, and only in Baltimore, but you might want to check on that.
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    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    +1

    I work in Fort Fumble...the five sided puzzle palace...so I can't carry even though I never leave Virginia...

    But SD is an attitude...not just one of the tools...
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    No....you're not being disarmed "unconsciously"...you're just working in places that prohibit self-defense with a personally carried firearm.

    You're only disarmed if your brain is disengaged....

    Self-defense doesn't start or end with a firearm.
    Agreed, very much!

    Personal example; Saturday I escorted my wife to her 20th HS reunion. It was held at a college, and to which carry of any 'weapons' is disallowed.
    I knew up front that there would be a dinner served as along with a 'cash bar'.

    One of my wifes friends was there with her husband; she and the husband both are 2nd degree black belts in an obscure Japanese based system with over 20 yrs. training experience per person). I knew up front that they would be there.

    I get to talking late in the day with the husband about the concept and mindset of self defense. He brought up the subject, not I.
    As we are talking he opens up his suit jacket and from his breast pocket displays a kubuton that is approx. 6" long and 3/4" diameter, with a pair of keys attached to it's end. he smiles and asks if I know what it is. Without need to think I remark 'kubuton', to which he smiles wryly and goes on to comment that no matter what or where he's always armed.

    I shook my head.

    As I thought of the full glass of ginger ale on ice (that visually looks like alcohol to onlookers) in my right hand that to my mind if he were to be a threat I'd splash direct into his eyes and then strike him at the bridge of the nose with....As well as the sliverware dining fork (large) that I'd discreetly pocketed to my left pocket as early in the event while eating the initial array of foods which the dining services people had quickly removed (inside of 2 hrs) and replaced with finger foods.
    That fork as he's dazed and recovering from his eye stinging from the carbonated drink followed by eye & nose watering from being hit in the face with a bludgeon would be used to follow up with an attack to the neck and upper chest at close distance.

    Further in the conversation he went on to discuss firearms and firearms disarms knowing that I am gun guy.
    He continually referred to guns as being "weapons".
    I'd corrected him and stated that anything can be weaponized. Including my glass with soft drink on ice, and a piece of silverware.

    As SigGuy noted, you are only disarmed by mentality. Ask anyone who has ever been in or worked at a jail or prison.
    Equally correct self defense does not begin nor end with a firearm.

    Due to location circumstances an outing I made this morning is the first time in four days that I have been armed as in wearing a gun.
    Majority of the other days I have been armed with a can of OC/CS worn or carried on/at my person either covertly or overtly (as camouflaged), or with a folding or fixed blade knife...And as always with my brain.

    SD to my mind and mindset does not require nor revolve around a utility belt,or pockets of covertly carried combat articles.

    - Janq

    P.S. - After arriving onsite and my wife leaving me to go gossip with her buddys, first thing I did was take myself for a walk about and identified all of the exit points on the floor where we were located.
    There were four elevators in a central corridor whihc is where everyone came up by...And in event of say a fire is where folks would think instinctively to go. Being as we were in a high rise tower though on the 10th floor, good luck with that (!).
    I located two alternate stairways one of which was semi-hidden and in the dark as per the floor plan layout among the walls would have been near impossible for folks to locate under stress muchless darkness without aid of knowing where to go before hand.
    I was gone maybe :10m and had planned to use the excuse if confronted of I was looking for/went to the mens room. She never missed me though and has no idea I had wandered. But had the need arisen and some drama occur, guess who would be more likely to be alive than not?
    SD includes defense against situational elements of all sorts, not just humans being human.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    +1

    I work in Fort Fumble...the five sided puzzle palace...so I can't carry even though I never leave Virginia...

    But SD is an attitude...not just one of the tools...
    Park at the Pentagon City Mall parking garage... Haven't had a problem when I was at the Pentagon.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Agreed, very much!

    Personal example; Saturday I escorted my wife to her 20th HS reunion. It was held at a college, and to which carry of any 'weapons' is disallowed.
    I knew up front that there would be a dinner served as along with a 'cash bar'.

    One of my wifes friends was there with her husband; she and the husband both are 2nd degree black belts in an obscure Japanese based system with over 20 yrs. training experience per person). I knew up front that they would be there.

    I get to talking late in the day with the husband about the concept and mindset of self defense. He brought up the subject, not I.
    As we are talking he opens up his suit jacket and from his breast pocket displays a kubuton that is approx. 6" long and 3/4" diameter, with a pair of keys attached to it's end. he smiles and asks if I know what it is. Without need to think I remark 'kubuton', to which he smiles wryly and goes on to comment that no matter what or where he's always armed.

    I shook my head.

    As I thought of the full glass of ginger ale on ice (that visually looks like alcohol to onlookers) in my right hand that to my mind if he were to be a threat I'd splash direct into his eyes and then strike him at the bridge of the nose with....As well as the sliverware dining fork (large) that I'd discreetly pocketed to my left pocket as early in the event while eating the initial array of foods which the dining services people had quickly removed (inside of 2 hrs) and replaced with finger foods.
    That fork as he's dazed and recovering from his eye stinging from the carbonated drink followed by eye & nose watering from being hit in the face with a bludgeon would be used to follow up with an attack to the neck and upper chest at close distance.

    Further in the conversation he went on to discuss firearms and firearms disarms knowing that I am gun guy.
    He continually referred to guns as being "weapons".
    I'd corrected him and stated that anything can be weaponized. Including my glass with soft drink on ice, and a piece of silverware.

    As SigGuy noted, you are only disarmed by mentality. Ask anyone who has ever been in or worked at a jail or prison.
    Equally correct self defense does not begin nor end with a firearm.

    Due to location circumstances an outing I made this morning is the first time in four days that I have been armed as in wearing a gun.
    Majority of the other days I have been armed with a can of OC/CS worn or carried on/at my person either covertly or overtly (as camouflaged), or with a folding or fixed blade knife...And as always with my brain.

    SD to my mind and mindset does not require nor revolve around a utility belt,or pockets of covertly carried combat articles.

    - Janq

    P.S. - After arriving onsite and my wife leaving me to go gossip with her buddys, first thing I did was take myself for a walk about and identified all of the exit points on the floor where we were located.
    There were four elevators in a central corridor whihc is where everyone came up by...And in event of say a fire is where folks would think instinctively to go. Being as we were in a high rise tower though on the 10th floor, good luck with that (!).
    I located two alternate stairways one of which was semi-hidden and in the dark as per the floor plan layout among the walls would have been near impossible for folks to locate under stress muchless darkness without aid of knowing where to go before hand.
    I was gone maybe :10m and had planned to use the excuse if confronted of I was looking for/went to the mens room. She never missed me though and has no idea I had wandered. But had the need arisen and some drama occur, guess who would be more likely to be alive than not?
    SD includes defense against situational elements of all sorts, not just humans being human.
    Excellent!
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Park at the Pentagon City Mall parking garage... Haven't had a problem when I was at the Pentagon.
    When I drive, that's where I park...but I slug in, so I disarm at the slug lot before getting onto 95...

    And when I drive in, I pick up slugs...so I have to drive onto the reservation to drop off the slugs...
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    As I thought of the full glass of ginger ale on ice (that visually looks like alcohol to onlookers) in my right hand that to my mind if he were to be a threat I'd splash direct into his eyes and then strike him at the bridge of the nose with....As well as the sliverware dining fork (large) that I'd discreetly pocketed to my left pocket as early in the event while eating the initial array of foods which the dining services people had quickly removed (inside of 2 hrs) and replaced with finger foods.
    That fork as he's dazed and recovering from his eye stinging from the carbonated drink followed by eye & nose watering from being hit in the face with a bludgeon would be used to follow up with an attack to the neck and upper chest at close distance.
    Good thing I close quarter spar with my eyes closed sometimes :p
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Agreed, very much!
    ...first thing I did was take myself for a walk about and identified all of the exit points on the floor where we were located.
    There were four elevators in a central corridor whihc is where everyone came up by...And in event of say a fire is where folks would think instinctively to go. Being as we were in a high rise tower though on the 10th floor, good luck with that (!).
    I located two alternate stairways one of which was semi-hidden and in the dark as per the floor plan layout among the walls would have been near impossible for folks to locate under stress muchless darkness without aid of knowing where to go before hand.
    ...guess who would be more likely to be alive than not?
    SD includes defense against situational elements of all sorts, not just humans being human.
    Janq,

    Good points, and I have to admit that I have been in lots of places where I didn't think about this kind of preparation. I will now.

    Thanks,

    ret

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    To the OP...
    I work in a school, so no weapons in the building or in the vehicle. Being without weapons at school isn't so bad (I tell myself), I have a cop very close by...now I'll be working with him daily. The problem for me is the 50 mile, daily round-trip where I am without weapons on country roads.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Being completely serious about this though...Knowing location of the fire exits was and is paramount.
    Even in a one story building never mind a tower, at night.

    Reasons being:
    * On the floor above us (11th) was a wedding party that was large by the sounds of the foot stomping resonating into our room below.
    * Two floors below us (8th) was a second HS reunion on going.
    * On the elevator ride up we came up in a car alone just the two of us and it was as elevators go quite small. Size of a large shower stall.
    As we rode down leaving the event my wife & along with the karate couple and one other couple rode in the same car down. Three males against the rear wall and three females forward at the door (my wife on center).

    I'm 6'1" and 175 lbs but lean and slender (clearly muscular & athletic when out of clothes). Karate guy is approx. 5'10" and has to be pushing 200lbs. minimum with a visible gut (4 mos pregger looking). The other dude is built like Dolph Lundgren....A Dane standing what had to be 6'6" or so and pushing 250lbs easy. Built like me only scaled up.
    I mention this for good reason. We three males with our wives were packed int that elevator like sardines, as shoulder to shoulder. We could maybe physically fit one more female in that car but that would be it as the doors would not have closed.
    There were 45 attendees and most of them brought a spouse/date/escort.

    Four elevators cars of equal size supporting functionally just 6 people divided 90 people taking approx. :60s to descend to the ground floor. Double that time for the return cycle. As in use/demand by the partys above and below us too.
    Now add to this mix a mental person armed or a minor building fire with real issue of smoke inhalation, and people in a panic. Now what? Problems, that's what. Injury and death to follow.

    The first stair exit was clearly illuminated and easy to find in a corridor to the right of the elevator shaft (center of the building).
    That's where everyone would queue up and kill each other to try going down. All you need is one overweight person or physically less than able person to log jam the works. See the lessons learned by the NYPD at the WTC towers during the 9/11 fire. : |
    Not a criticism, just a real world reflection.

    The second fire exit I found by being very nosy. Down the corridor opposite of the elevators and beyond the bathrooms is a sitting room that was not illuminated. My first thought upon seeing this is this would be a good place to jump on someone; Good or bad.
    I enter and find that to my right the room elbows and has a rear door. I exit the rear door into a small corridor that clearly feeds into the dining services kitchen. I can hear them talking and dishes clanging. This is how the servers were accessing our room for support.
    Forward of me opposite of the door is a second door that from my perspective leads to darkness. I enter it.
    It's a conference room on the far opposite side corner of the tower we're in. The window shades are open so the only light is ambient from the street and building lights outside. It's very dark there. I look to my right and see a table against what looks like a second sub-wall. I walk over there and tadow what do I find...An EXIT sign. The red of it though was completely obscured due to it's being installed within a subwall entry.
    The architect, installer and building inspector all likely cleared this by thinking of how that room would look in light. In darkness though that exit/entrance and indicator light were invisible. The door was alarmed for exit and marked as such.
    I made a mental note of this and re-traced my steps back...Same as I do when I count seats, step and hard object memory points (emergency exit doors) as I enter an airplane in the event I have to find my way back in darkness/smoke/underwater.

    So yeah if say karate guy had had too much to drink or been off his meds or the Dolph Lundgren looking giant didn't like how another might have looked/talked to his wife and a brawl breaks out...Guess where me and my being dragged off because she isn't so good at listening wife would be?
    In a dark room pushing a metal latch bar at a hidden emergency exit.

    Life experience thus far has taught me these things, and to think of and view my world as such.
    Most often it's been an exercise in futility of thought. But stuff does happen and as such generally when I'm at some place new or with some person unknown to me I do actively think in the back of my mind; 'How would I deal with this place/situation/person if things went negative?'.
    To my mind it matters not where I am or who might be facing me. Every puzzle has a solution.

    - Janq

    P.S. - Karate guy and his wife are for real. Not belt school bandits who bought their way to black.
    They are both international system ranked, own their own school/dojo and I'm quite sure in a stand up 'fair' fight either could kick my arse up and down with ease. Their elementary school aged kids are diesel too as I've seen first hand and in video they have shared with us.
    So with that said and by my own again life experience mindset, I don't think and would not act fairly. For why? To get my butt kicked, fairly with grace. No thanks.
    Advantage goes to he/she who can recognize a strength, exploit a weakness....And makes use of all that their environment might offer.
    My mom told me as a kid toward street survival...
    Life is not and never has been fair. [My wife still at age 37 does not get/understand this fact of life & living, commenting toward it often]
    [url=http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?111141-Hot-Coffee-is-a-weapon-right]Everything is a weapon[url] (!).
    The only two rules in a street fight is that there are no rules and that you must survive.
    Do not allow anyone to put hands on you, unless it's the police to which you then had as default better be running rather than standing toe to toe.

    My mom's really basic advice has kept me alive and allowed me to endure if not get myself out of all manner of life experiences, to the negative.
    She also taught me to make use of the utensils she'd send me to school with in my lunch box as defensive tools. In those days it was not against school policy to bring from home a metal fork or knife.
    I can still see and hear here now; "Hold it like you mean it and don't let nobody take it from you....If you pick it up then you use it, or put it away."

    Mindset and mentality.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #14
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    Not a whole lot you can do, if its against the law and you can't carry, well you cant carry. How else do i deal with it? VOTE! volunteer for a pro-gun candidate, donate some $, anything you can to carry.

  15. #15
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    As a resident in Northern Va, i find it annoying when i want to go to MD or DC. i rarely go so its okay. but when i do go its spontanious so it can be annoying.

    isnt it legal to transport ur fire arm in your car thru md and dc? so u can atleast have it in the trunk? i havnt looked in to this yet...

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