Please clarify a VA law

This is a discussion on Please clarify a VA law within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was reading where CC is illegal in Virginia and it says "18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or ...

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Please clarify a VA law

  1. #1
    Member Array Biggie313's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    125

    Question Please clarify a VA law

    I was reading where CC is illegal in Virginia and it says
    "18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited."

    And that code states:
    "O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property."

    does that mean If there is a No Gun sign I can not legally carry there? I was under the impression that they could only ask you to leave and if you didn't you would be guilty of trespassing. Please help me clarify this

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    21,344
    First off, welcome to the forum.

    As to your question, my understanding is that if asked to leave and you refuse you are guilty of misdemeanor trespassing. It is not a weapons violation. If properly concealed it should be a non-issue.

    IANAL
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wyoming, DE
    Posts
    11,014
    Welcome to the DC Forum from Delaware!
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
    dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,786
    if it says it is illegal where prohibited by private property owner, guess what, that means it is illegial where there is a sign posted, carry there if you wish, but be aware you are probably breaking state law
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    if it says it is illegal where prohibited by private property owner, guess what, that means it is illegial where there is a sign posted, carry there if you wish, but be aware you are probably breaking state law
    This is my understanding also...but I'll defer to folks more knowledgable, as I'm here to learn too...
    VCDL Member
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
    Theodore Roosevelt

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    This is my understanding also...but I'll defer to folks more knowledgable, as I'm here to learn too...
    Then you should be asking a lawyer from VA
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Then you should be asking a lawyer from VA
    I plan to...I have an appointment with an attorney who specializes in both gun laws and wills/trusts...two birds with one stone...

    But...there are people on here that are very knowledgable on the laws of the Commonwealth...
    VCDL Member
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
    Theodore Roosevelt

  9. #8
    New Member Array EchoSierra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4
    Any chance you could let us know what he says? I'm also very curious to know.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kommie-fornia-stan
    Posts
    7,068
    IANAL....

    There is nothing punitive in the code (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308)

    O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.
    The way the law is written...it's a civil matter...not a criminal matter. So...if discovered and asked to leave by management....you leave and take it up with more senior management (there are a ton of threads on this, see function)...

    If you don't leave....then you can be charged with trespassing. (see: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-119)

    18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

    If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.
    See the difference in the punitive sections of the codes?

    But I am interested what the lawyer says...because I am not a lawyer...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  11. #10
    Member Array USAFtrevor87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Inver Grove Heights, MN
    Posts
    38
    I think that was answered. Pretty close to the same law as MN. I was going to help out, but I think its taken care of.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,450
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    IANAL....

    There is nothing punitive in the code (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308)



    The way the law is written...it's a civil matter...not a criminal matter. So...if discovered and asked to leave by management....you leave and take it up with more senior management (there are a ton of threads on this, see function)...

    If you don't leave....then you can be charged with trespassing. (see: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-119)

    I called the Virginia State Police and asked this exact question. The Trooper I spoke with said the same thing as Sigguy said.

    It's a civil matter as long as you're not breaking any other laws, i.e.,: disorderly conduct, assault, etc.

    I too am not a lawyer, so best if you find this out for yourself.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post

    It's a civil matter as long as you're not breaking any other laws, i.e.,: disorderly conduct, assault, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    IANAL....

    There is nothing punitive in the code (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308)

    The way the law is written...it's a civil matter...not a criminal matter.
    ....
    If you don't leave....then you can be charged with trespassing. (see: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-119)

    INAL -- however, please note:

    Although "18.2-308 (O.) does not create a crime, "trespass after having been forbidden" is a misdemeanor. It is the same misdemeanor that applies to "Shoes and shirts required". "Proper golf attire required", "No wet bathing suit beyond this point" "No cut-offs in the pool", "No outside food allowed", etc.

    18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.
    .....
    or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted
    ....
    he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    A misdemeanor is a criminal matter, not a civil matter.

    You do don't need to be given a chance to leave, if they can establish that you knew it was posted. That's why places like malls, restaurants, non-K-12 schools, hospitals, etc keep list of folk "warned."

    True, generally most places will allow you to just leave. However, if they can show you were warned they can have you arrested.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  14. #13
    Member Array Shackleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia
    Posts
    267
    I talked this over with a couple LEO friends of mine, and they said your best bet is to not carry where there are "No guns" signs.
    Just my 2 cents, and I'd like to hear what the lawyer says.
    Semper Paratus

    ‎"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,355
    Even if a private property is not posted with a sign and for whatever reason (i.e. you are printing) you are asked to leave by the property owner (or an agent of the property owner), you either have to leave or face tresspassing. Once a private property owner says the gun must leave the property, they have established it being prohibited by the owner regardless of not being posted.
    Last edited by BugDude; August 10th, 2010 at 11:09 PM. Reason: correction
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Even if a private property is not posted with a sign and for whatever reason (i.e. you are printing) you are asked to leave by the property owner (or an agent of the property owner), you either have to leave or face tresspassing. Once a private property owner says the gun must leave the property, they have established it being prohibited by the owner regardless of not being posted.
    ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

    Absolutely!

    Also, please do so politely and quickly -- w/o making a scene.

    Please do not complain or argue about the lack of a sign.

    There is nothing to gain by raising the point of no sign -- you have have been forbidden to do so orally. That's all that is required:

    18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons....


    There are two things to lose by raising the point of no sign -- 1) the owners, etc is likely to post a sign making the place off limits to those who conceal better than you were at that time, and 2) the owners, etc might just call the law and you could get a misdemeanor conviction.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

trespassing charges if you leave the property va
,
va 18.2-308 private property
,
virginia 18.2-308.o
,
virginia handgun prohibited by the owner of private property
,
? 18.2-308(0) no guns allowed
,

?18.2-308 (o.): private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.

Click on a term to search for related topics.