Fate or concealed carry? - Page 2

Fate or concealed carry?

This is a discussion on Fate or concealed carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Direct your sister to the book of Esther, where in chapter 4 Esther is instructed by Mordecai to go to the king unbidden. She does ...

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Thread: Fate or concealed carry?

  1. #16
    Member Array Trumpetchuck's Avatar
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    Direct your sister to the book of Esther, where in chapter 4 Esther is instructed by Mordecai to go to the king unbidden. She does not want to do this and Mordecai tells her inverse 14: "....and who knows but that you have come to this royal position for such a time as this?"
    "Don't be afraid to see what you see.
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  2. #17
    AzB is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAK View Post
    Maybe it was fate that you strapped your gun on that day when you save an entire establishment full of people from getting executed.
    Post of the day!

    I think people that rely on fate are simply not addressing the issue. They are hiding from it. Sure, there are plenty of things in life that you can't prepare for, and that does include getting shot. Even if you're armed it can happen. But there are plenty of things in life you can prepare for, and this is why we carry, have savings accounts, medical insurance, retirement plans, gas gauges, first aid kits, etc, etc. If she has any of these events prepared for, then she simply doesn't see the issue as being important enough to engage her interest.

    IOW, it's a cop out.

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    The sister did not make a religious argument. She just enunciated the same thinking that leads most people to not carry a concealed weapon. "Fate," in this case, should not be mistaken for "God." Rather, it's a reference to statistical likelihood.

    You know perfectly well that your chances of needing a firearm are slim. It is most probable that you'll never need it. The most dangerous thing you do is drive a car. To be perfectly safe, you wouldn't drive anywhere. You'd take a bus for transportation, or find some way to always stay home. You know for a certain fact that every time you head out on the road, some drunk driver or a texting teen could run a light and plow into you dead-on and kill you in a twisted ball of wreckage.

    But you accept that possibility, figuring that if your number is up, it's up.

    But you attempt to lessen your chance of getting into an accident by being aware of your surroundings do you not? The Equivalent of not driving to avoid and accident is to not leave your house in fear of being accosted. But just like the driver who is aware of other drivers....we carry a firearm and remain aware of other people.
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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.Exodus 22:2-3
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  6. #20
    New Member Array DcTc's Avatar
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    God told Joshua that He would give 5 kings and theirs army into his hand. Joshua 10:8.

    Joshua did not sit back and take it easy knowing that the work was done by God. He marched all night to engage the enemy. v 10

    We are to work as God directs not sit and let God do it for us.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Faith, yes. Fate, not so much.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post

    I had a good talk with my sister tonight and during the conversation I brought up that I do carry a firearm. She was not against it at all, she understood why I do carry but she felt that fate would determine if she lives or dies if a random gunman walks into a store and starts shooting.
    In the case of "a random gunman walks into a store and starts shooting", she is probably right. ;)

    However, in the case of a gunman walking into a store and shooting randomly, her options decline dramatically and exponentially based on the number of targets in the store, the skill of the shooter, and the amount of ammunition available to the shooter. This is offset by the number of self-defense shooters in the store, their skill in shooting, the number of rounds available to them, and the proximity of a phone capable of calling 911.

    "Those that live by the sword will die by it" is offset by "Be as shrewd as serpents, yet as innocent as doves".

    The Church has historically taken the posture of non-violence, yet one of the first converts to Christianity were Roman soldiers.

    I have wrestled with this very issue. In fact, one of my LEO friends said it would NOT be good for me to get a concealed carry.

    "You would want to pray with them before you shot them," he said.

    "It would be a short prayer," I replied.

    Seriously, Conceal Carry is NOT for everyone. I certainly don't endorse it as a primary means of disaster survival. When there's 51 folks around your residence and you have 50 rounds, there's choices to be made.

    As for "God helps those who help themselves", the heathen would apply that by helping themselves to your stuff. <G>

    The verbiage is NOT in the Bible. The concept MAY be found in the "if they don't work, they don't eat". Given the communal nature of the First Church, that concept would be more easily enforced than it may be today.

    Finally, the FATES are a trilogy of Roman gods, not the God of the Universe. I would rather trust the latter than the former. <G>
    Lloyd Colston KC5FM
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  9. #23
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tala View Post
    I don't ever read where God told us to sit back and expect life to be served up for us on a silver platter.
    According to the Bible, these are Jesus's own words:

    Matthew 6:25
    Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

    Matthew 6:30 - 31
    Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

    Matthew 6:34
    Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.
    Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
    - Mike Tyson

  10. #24
    Member Array DustyBottoms's Avatar
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    "No fate but what we make."___ Terminator2

    ..What, I can't believe no one else quaoted that already!
    Coincidentally James Cameron's a huge gun buff so it makes sense that he wrote that.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Here is an interesting article on this subject:

    What does the Bible say about fate / destiny?
    America: Your government is not ignoring you, it's insulting you.

    The Bill of Rights: Void where prohibited by law.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black in S. FL.
    You make your own fate. You can either jump off a building or not. It's a decision, not fate.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    Fate exists, it is real, but, your free will determines your fate.
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array jhh3rd's Avatar
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    Just because we will all die someday does not mean we spend our lives camped-out in the graveyard. Your sister's choice works for her. Remind her though, you don't always get "to die" in a criminal attack. A life of debilitating pain and suffering may take years until "fate" produces death. Carrying and possibly using a firearm in SELF defense may mitigate unneeded suffering.

  15. #29
    GM is offline
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    Fate does not stop a BG's bullets. It really is a pity that your sister has decided that it is OK to die in that way.
    Last edited by GM; August 13th, 2010 at 01:03 PM.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  16. #30
    Member Array Dadoo's Avatar
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    God helps those who help themselves

    I have heard this all my life, but it actually ranks up there with "cleanliness is next to godliness". It's not Biblical. The opposite is true; God helps those who rely on Him.
    That being said, even Jesus admonishes His desciples to buy a sword (Luke 22:36). The Bible also tells me that if I dont provide for my family (which also includes protecting them) I'm worse than an infidel.
    There is a difference between faith and fatalism. I trust God, but I also look both ways before crossing the street!
    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
    - G. K. Chesterton

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