Fate or concealed carry?

This is a discussion on Fate or concealed carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Fate & FAITH are not the same, I trust in God & S&W ; ) PS I only read first page & replied, So I ...

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Thread: Fate or concealed carry?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Fate & FAITH are not the same, I trust in God & S&W ; )
    PS I only read first page & replied, So I Jumped the gun so to speak
    H/D
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  3. #47
    Member Array wilbmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuek View Post
    When I was a kid I heard a joke told by a minister about a devoutly religious man and his tribulations during a flood, it went something like this:

    There was a devoutly religious man of God and he believed God would save him because of his strong Faith.
    One day it started raining and after a while it was beginning to flood and the water was up to his door jam. The police came by and asked him to leave with them and he said No God will save me if I need it.
    Then the next day the water was up to the second floor and a Fire Dept boat pulled up to a window and asked the man to leave, once again he said, No God will save me if I need it.
    On the third day as the man sat on the roof a National Guard Helicopter flew in and asked the man to leave, once again he said, No God will save me if I need it.
    The man drowned and his spirit went to heaven where he stood in front of God.
    He said to God, My Lord I was a devout follower of your word and still I died, was it my fate to die as I did?
    God looked at the man and said, My son fate had nothing to do with it. I tried to save you, I sent the police, the fire dept and finally the National Guard, what more could I do.

    So that resonated with me and I have lived with that in mind. We were given a method to protect ourselves and loved ones and By God I will do just that when I have to.
    -Tuuek
    I thought of this same story. I was going to post it but saw that it was already there. God provides us with the opportunities to make decisions. How we act is up to us.

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    Not to get into any heavy religious debate, but I believe the saying, "Better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have one."
    "Bad spellers of the world - untie!"

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  5. #49
    Member Array Grantspastor's Avatar
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    The religious perspective usually comes from a misunderstanding of certain Bible Passages such as Romans 8:28 where it says "all things work togethether for the good of those who love God, who are called according to His purpose...because those whom God foreknew, He pre-destined to be conformed to His image"

    The MISUUNDERSTANDING says that God pre-destines everything to happen, and that it all happens for a reason. In fact God does NOT pre-destine everything to happen. He just knows ahead of time what will happen, and makes it work for good for people who love Him. All people have free will...and some people excercise that free will to harm and endanger other more law-abiding folks. I excercise my free will to carry concealed and stay aware so that such predators don't harm me or my family.

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grantspastor View Post
    The religious perspective usually comes from a misunderstanding of certain Bible Passages such as Romans 8:28 where it says "all things work togethether for the good of those who love God, who are called according to His purpose...because those whom God foreknew, He pre-destined to be conformed to His image"

    The MISUUNDERSTANDING says that God pre-destines everything to happen, and that it all happens for a reason. In fact God does NOT pre-destine everything to happen. He just knows ahead of time what will happen, and makes it work for good for people who love Him. All people have free will...and some people excercise that free will to harm and endanger other more law-abiding folks. I excercise my free will to carry concealed and stay aware so that such predators don't harm me or my family.
    Yes! There's a great book called "Why Bad Things Happen To Good People" that discusses your point in greater detail - we have free will, so in effect, nothing is really pre-determined for us. God loves us, and He could determine our "fate" for us, but He gives us the power to make our own choices.
    "Bad spellers of the world - untie!"

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  7. #51
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    I think 'fate' and 'religions' are the ficticious constructs of we humans attempting to understand what we do not know by way of humanly comprehensible evidence. (I'm aware that's JMO__you are entitled to yours too).

    What is is.
    What is not is not.
    That is it is it not?

    To each his own___and the consequences of his/her actions determine their life experience. I only have to decide how I will deal with that which affects me. Same for OP and sister.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  8. #52
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    Man I just realized I fell into one of the oldest traps!
    Why does it have to be Fate or concealed carry.
    Why isn't it both?
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  9. #53
    Member Array Hall's Avatar
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    Fate is different for everybody, and their interpretation of fate is different. To be objective, I visited my dictionary. It says that fate is “something that unavoidably befalls a person.” By this definition, if I can avoid it, it must not be fate. If I can avoid being gunned down by a BG by ending him before he can hurt me or someone else, it’s not fate. No problems here
    If you think you'll lose, you're lost
    For out in the world you'll find
    Success begins with a fellow's will
    It's all in the state of mind.

  10. #54
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    If your sister means God's will is behind fate that's one thing but "fate"... what is it? Is it some divine force to her apart from God? You can't really talk about it without a definition.

    I believe in God and that God is sovereign but I also believe He expects me to use good judgment. I carry a gun, I also have insurance and a fire extinguisher. I don't believe in "fate'.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  11. #55
    Member Array clark81's Avatar
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    Agree 100% with Thumper. God is in control of all things. But He may certainly use the means of my gun to save one life and end another.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post
    If it is all planned out what is the point of being armed?
    I do not believe it is all planned out.

    I believe my decisions, a great majority of the time, can affect outcomes. Some outcomes are beyond my control, but many are within my control. Therefore I carry.

    Your sister may not mind exiting this life and going to what she believes is a better life. However, I have responsibilities to my family that I would prefer to fulfill. I can do that best by staying alive a while longer.


    Perhaps you can ask your sister that if depending on fate is so desirable and righteous, then why did Jesus command his disciples to be armed? Luke 22.36

    Another question, perhaps more pointed and maybe inflammatory, is to ask her if she only intends to follow SOME of Jesus' instructions. Might cause an argument, or might cause her to think.

    Another point to ask a religious person is that if it is all planned out, why are we held responsible for our decisions? If someone else planned everything out for us, even our decisions, then whoever did the planning is responsible. If she's ever read her Bible carefully, I don't think she'll agree with that point, that is, that we are not responsible for our decisions.

    Some religious folks are a lost cause when it comes to thinking and reading the Bible for themselves, instead relying wholly on opinions and decisions of their church leaders. I hope your sister isn't one of them.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    I'm a Baptist Pastor and felt no need to be armed at all 3 years ago.

    I can not say what changed but in my soul and my wife's soul we knew we needed to be armed CC and more.

    I feel at perfect peace about arming up and CCing everywhere it is legal.

    Fate or the will of God, i do not know which, but peace about CC and more is right for us now!!
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness,
    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    These verses do not mean what you seem to imply they mean. If I understand your intent, Jesus would be telling us to run around naked, waiting for someone to drop food into our mouths. I know of no one who understands these words in that way.

    Instead, he is talking about worry, obsessing over the basics of life, when there is much more for us to focus on beyond just food, drink, etc. IOW, the abundant life that Jesus talks about which includes not just the physical, but also the spiritual.
    Ditto. If you remeber the verses in Proverbs about the woman worth more than rubies, it talks about all the work she does rising early to make food, and working to prepare her family warm clothes for the winter, etc. and that is who I strive to be like ;)
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

  15. #59
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    1 Timothy 5:8
    If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

  16. #60
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    God helps those who help themselves.
    I can just hear a voice saying, "Son, I provided you with the tools and made training opportunities available to you, yet you failed to take advantage of them. This was not fate, nor the end I would have chosen for you," as I stand before St. Peter at the pearly gates; "This was stupidity on your part. For that you are not worthy of the kingdom of heaven."

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; August 14th, 2010 at 02:54 AM. Reason: typo

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