Help make a case for workplace carry

This is a discussion on Help make a case for workplace carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently brought up the idea of concealed carry to the management at my place of work. I carry every day, but leave my edc ...

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Thread: Help make a case for workplace carry

  1. #1
    Member Array pt111pro's Avatar
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    Help make a case for workplace carry

    I recently brought up the idea of concealed carry to the management at my place of work. I carry every day, but leave my edc locked up in my truck during work hours. Our company has a no weapons policy, and I asked if there were any chance of making exceptions for people who had been through the legal process to obtain their permit. There is a group of people that would need to make the decision, and I am trying to present a well infromed case for concealed carry during work hours. I did get a positive response when I first brought it up, but would like to make a good case o present to the rest of the group.

    Have any of you been through this at your workplace? If so, how did it go, and what was argument for carrying? I know what my reasons are for carrying on a daily basis, but trying to convey that to a group of people is easier said than done.

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  3. #2
    Member Array Jermedic's Avatar
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    Best of luck with your proposal. The topic has come up a few times at my work as many of us including supervisors have ccw permits. In CA at least, it would be too involved and be too much of a liability for the company. If you did ever shoot someone, the first thing that the lawyer for the guy you shot is going to ask is did you have a permit, does company policy allow you to carry while on the clock, does your company provide firearms training to be sure you know what you are doing? The last one is where the liability lies I think. No company is going to back you if you do shoot someone on the clock. Too much money for them to risk paying out in a lawsuit. I'm sure things are different in other states, but here in CA everyone likes to sue, and companies don't like to take on any risk.

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    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    I think the case for workplace carry really depends on the details of where you work, public interaction, travel, neighborhood, physical security of the facilities, etc. It's hard to give advice without some of these details. Can you provide some of these details without giving too much information that would identify your workplace?
    Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
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    Member Array Fozzy Bear's Avatar
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    I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that any affective responce will have to take your specific laws into account. It seems pretty clear that I (in VA) would have a much easier time of it that Jermedic over in Ca. ... but again , that's just a guess.

    Where DO you live?

    edit: darn, I type really slow... sorry for the dupe, gruntingfrog
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    Member Array pt111pro's Avatar
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    We have several offices in small rural towns and a few in larger metroplex areas. None of them have a lot of public interaction, more warehouse type settings. We do occasionally have customers in the buildings but not a lot, they are all open to the general public though. My job does involve a lot of travel between offices some of which are hours apart, which is one reason I would prefer to not have my firearm locked in my vehicle at my main office. Hope some of that helps.

    The laws in our state would not prohibit concealed carry in our buildings.

  7. #6
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    I would focus on the travel portion of your job and the possible dangers posed to you when in transit. Stopping for fuel, breaking down on the side of the road, and other situations put you at risk. Additionally, since the buildings are open to the public and presumably lacking significant physical security or security guards this could also pose a threat. The level of that threat depends on cash or other items of value, profile of the business, and neighborhood. For example, a business that is well known in the area to ship high value electronics from their warehouses that are located in poor neighborhoods would be at a higher risk than many others.

    Keep in mind that there's a fine line between cautious and paranoid and make sure to present your argument in a reasonable manner. The best way to not appear paranoid is to concede that the likelihood of you needing to defend yourself is very low, but hold your ground that it's the wise choice to prepare for that possibility. You can use the insurance analogy. The likelihood of one of your business's warehouses catching fire is really low, but it would be extremely unwise not to have fire insurance.
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I'm in the same situation. No weapons policy and posted workplace. The public comes and goes all day long. We received a new policy banning firearms in private cars in the parking lot unless written authorization. I received the written authorization to secure it in my private vehicle in the parking lot while at work. I haven't gone down the road of carrying in the building. I've had positive conversations with the higher ups about the fact that the no weapons signs are useless and they understand and agree. I'm doubtful that they would make the leap to carry in the building.

    I wouldn't seem over anxious or anything. Stay calm, rational, and patient. Realistically, workplace attrocities happen every day where employees aren't allowed to carry defensive hardware and the employer isn't providing high levels of defense for their employees. They should take reasonable security precautions, but that doesn't ensure your safety. There's lots of good information available on this site. Hope it helps.
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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jermedic View Post
    Best of luck with your proposal. The topic has come up a few times at my work as many of us including supervisors have ccw permits. In CA at least, it would be too involved and be too much of a liability for the company. If you did ever shoot someone, the first thing that the lawyer for the guy you shot is going to ask is did you have a permit, does company policy allow you to carry while on the clock, does your company provide firearms training to be sure you know what you are doing? The last one is where the liability lies I think. No company is going to back you if you do shoot someone on the clock. Too much money for them to risk paying out in a lawsuit. I'm sure things are different in other states, but here in CA everyone likes to sue, and companies don't like to take on any risk.
    That's what I see as the big impediment toa company allowing CC for employees. If someone goes postal, even though it's illegal to do so with or without a permit, the company probably thinks they'll be blamed for allowing the weapons on site. Or, if they deal w/the public, will feel it'll create a hostile environment and scare people away.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  12. #11
    Member Array Bandolero's Avatar
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    Most companies will not allow firearms into the workplace for liability reasons. They know their legal position is far better if they can denmonstrate they were not a party in any way to actions that "assisted" in a workplace shooting. Their insurance policy covering the workplace may even specifically say that the company must have a no firearms at the workplace policy in order to receive insurance coverage by the carrier.

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    Member Array kyglockman's Avatar
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    i agree and disagree with some of the statements made! people that go postal in a work place dont care if they allow guns or not in there! they will bring one in no matter what and go postal! and i really think signs banning weapons(guns) on doors and in company policy are a joke! a robber is not going to look at the door and say oh s$$t i cant carry my gun in here i will have to find some place else to rob!!!! or a kidnapper is not going to get you or your child walking to your car from your work building or there school building cause guns and weapons are not allowed on the property! if i walk into a place that has a sign saying no weapons allowed most of the time i do not go in because they are assuming the responsibility for my safety which i know they cannot protect me if one of the robbers or postals come in the door and he forgot to read the sign!! most of the time when a plase of business has a sign on the door stating no weapons or what ever it says that is their rule not law! most of the time the the worst that can happen is that they ask you to leave or remove your gun/weapon from their primesses!! as far as work place violence goes it is not very likely to happen but can happen and in the world we live in today all kinds of violence is on the rise! so for me, I would rather be ALIVE and fired, then DEAD with a job!!!!!
    The only way to beat Violence, is with Violence!

  14. #13
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    This is why I work Remotely from my office. I carry every day at my "Remote Office" and my manager is not likely to show up from California! I even just go out to Lunch with my CCW!
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    Member Array pt111pro's Avatar
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    I appreciate all of yalls answers. I understand all the reasons they would say no, but when I brought it up initially I did get somewhat of a positive response, which is why I really want to have a good case when it comes up. So forgetting all the reasons they would say no, I really am looking for good reasons for them to say yes.

    Working late hours hours and lots of traveling were my main focus. I have already mentioned the fact that I like to keep the fact that I carry on a need to know basis and as far as I am concerned no body besides my immediate boss needs to know. I mentioned that I hope and pray that I never have a reason to use it, but like GruntingFrog said, you hope you never have to use your insurance policy but you still need it.

    Again I appreciate all the answers, if any one has an other "selling points" I would be more than happy to listen.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    This is how I see it... What would be the most cost effective law suit (settlement) for your company? The one for the employee with ccw while at work that shoots/disables/kills an armed disgruntled employee before he/she kills a dozen co-workers or the one from the families of the dozen co-workers suing because the company was negligent in providing protection for their loved ones?

    Good luck!
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