Am I too sensitive

This is a discussion on Am I too sensitive within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by NC Buckeye These are my issues. I carry the rig I use in IDPA and this would require that don't, as I ...

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Thread: Am I too sensitive

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    These are my issues. I carry the rig I use in IDPA and this would require that don't, as I would have to have my pistol in a gun rug when I entered the range. Also since there is no permissible area to have a loaded firearm there is no way to transition it from loaded and unloaded.

    Next since there is no ammo permitted in the safe area and I don't have a gun rug as I have no need for one, I would need to:

    1. Arrive Unarmed
    2. Carry my gear on to the range
    3. Remove all of my ammo from my range bag
    4. Leave said ammo unattended and carry my range bag to the safe area
    5. Remove my holstered unloaded weapon from my bag and put it on
    6. Take my range bag back to reclaim my ammo.


    The procedure before was unload my carry gun seated in my truck, reholster and go play.
    There's an easy fix for this.

    They should have a designated clearing area to allow people to load and unload guns prior to going to the safe area or signing in and such. This would also allow people to arm themselves prior to leaving the range as well if they normally carry a weapon. Barring that, I would look at something like the Safe Direction or an old bullet resistant vest to use in my vehicle as a backstop.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; August 24th, 2010 at 01:18 PM. Reason: clarification

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICTsnub View Post
    I have no issue with someone taking control on a live fire range. But, I understand IDPA is a game about shooting your carry rig. How do you transition from carrying, to playing? Disarm in the car?
    I am an avid IDPA shooter, and I have to say that IDPA is not "a game about shooting your carry gun." It is a game, period. It has defensive concealed carry as a theme and an inspiration, but it is a game and, like any other shooting sport, the game comes second to the local range requirements.

    Now, being in Maryland, we don't have too many IDPA shooters with carry permits, so the fact that we kit up at the table in the safe area is not an issue. If you come from a place where carry is a lot more common, ask the IDPA club to have one of their SOs supervise the shooters who need to go cold over at one of the berms. Then everybody is in the same condition for starting the match.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Next since there is no ammo permitted in the safe area and I don't have a gun rug as I have no need for one, I would need to:
    Gun rugs are $7.00... you now have a need for one...

    Carry the range bag with ammo, separate from the gun rug. After dropping the clip from the gin in the car, and ejecting the chamber as mentioned before, drop the range bag outside the safe area carry the gun rug to the safe area.

    I think they might have forgetten to clarify th steps... where is the ammo to be kept? how far out of safe area, etc... If they are going to micro-manage safety... then the rules have to be explicit... they will seem hard to follow at first... but once the kinks are ironed out... and everybody is doing it... no biggie... It's just a change that has to occur (they think) to make the place safe and viable for a long time to come....
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    Those rules sound fine to me because of the type of competition your in.
    Any time your going to have people moving with loaded firearms in competition
    The rules of simply "keep all loaded guns pointed down range" have to change
    because the down range "line" may move as the competition progresses.
    and you can not have people behind the line with loaded guns.
    The range I go to has a safe area , a staging/loading area, and a completly
    separate range for testing and shooting when the competition is in progress.

    As for loading and unloading your CCW , it must be unloaded before you enter
    the range/shooting area
    I always load or unload my CCW in my car in the parking lot if I take it in.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    What I seem to be getting out of this is that some people prefer manipulation of loaded guns in folks cars over doing it someplace on the range where there is adequate backstop and a definate safe direction for the muzzle to be pointed.

    That is quite confusing to me.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    There's an easy fix for this.

    They should have a designated clearing area to allow people to load and unload guns prior to going to the safe area or signing in and such. This would also allow people to arm themselves prior to leaving the range as well if they normally carry a weapon. Barring that, I would look at something like the Safe Direction or an old bullet resistant vest to use in my vehicle as a backstop.

    Biker
    This is what one of the two clubs I shoot with does. They have "extra" range space and have a bay this is not used in the match, which is the "load / unload" area and is considered "outside" the match area.

    The other club requires you to arrive with an unloaded gun.

    Matt
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    This was posted on my local IDPA clubs website. Am I too sensitive in thinking that this a) goes against what IDPA is all about and b) creates a rule that it is nearly impossible to remain in compliance with?
    Bear in mind - this set of rules is straight from the IDPA manual, and it is mandatory for IDPA clubs to comply.

    Even on a "hot range", the ONLY place you can EVER handle a loaded firearm is under the direct supervision of an SO. You may never, ever handle a loaded firearm or ammo at a safe table.

    Matt
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  9. #23
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    Those rules sound fine to me because of the type of competition your in.
    Any time your going to have people moving with loaded firearms in competition
    The rules of simply "keep all loaded guns pointed down range" have to change
    because the down range "line" may move as the competition progresses.
    and you can not have people behind the line with loaded guns.
    The range I go to has a safe area , a staging/loading area, and a completly
    separate range for testing and shooting when the competition is in progress.
    This would be a fine solution, but it doesn't exist

    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    As for loading and unloading your CCW , it must be unloaded before you enter
    the range/shooting area
    I always load or unload my CCW in my car in the parking lot if I take it in.
    The parking for this range is "in the range" and this is what they are forbidding.

  10. #24
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    This is what one of the two clubs I shoot with does. They have "extra" range space and have a bay this is not used in the match, which is the "load / unload" area and is considered "outside" the match area.

    The other club requires you to arrive with an unloaded gun.

    Matt
    This is the second option.

  11. #25
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    I sent an e-mail to the match director yesterday outlining my questions and concerns and I al looking forward to his response.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    This would be a fine solution, but it doesn't exist



    The parking for this range is "in the range" and this is what they are forbidding.
    As an IDPA club, they really do not have a choice.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
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  13. #27
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    I sent an e-mail to the match director yesterday outlining my questions and concerns and I al looking forward to his response.
    Let us know what the match director says.
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Our local IDPA suggests you discretely disarm and unload in/at your vehicle... This may change as more and more people exercise their R2KBA... Many folks don't have a lick of common sense... and a lot of them are becoming armed, because the 2nd amendment says so... They "get" the rights part, they just don't understand the responsibility part.

    For decades we have fought for these rights... Now, we're going to see the results... There will be more AD/ND incidents, there will be more people who carry "helping" law enforcement (and using a weapon when they shouldn't). And, mark my words here... it may take some time... but you will see more regulation as a result of it...
    Always the predictions of gloom and doom. I keep waiting for them to come true and they don't.

    In Vermont everybody who isn't a convicted felon has been able to load whatever they want and carry it with them pretty much anyplace, no permit required. Been that way for 107 years now (1903 VT Supreme Court Decision made it so). So, all this problem we are going to have, how much longer do we have to wait for all this bad stuff to start before we decide the predictions about it are wrong? 'Nother 100 years? Longer? Maybe it never happens?

    My club has the same rules about a safe area. I asked because I shoot my EDC from my every day concealed carry holster - it's the chance to practice with that rig, drawing, moving, and firing, that brings me to the matches. I finish pretty near the bottom of the pile in SSP - I'm old and slow but accurate. I'm in the lowest IDPA classification. And i arrive at the match with the loaded carry gun in my carry holster.

    So how do I deal with the rule? It was suggested I unload in the car. I suggested the outhouse. That was agreed to.

    I unload in the outhouse, holster the gun, put my carry magazine and ammo in my pocket, transfer it to the shooting bag at the car, and get on with the day. I comply with all the rules for the duration of the match. I reload in the outhouse before I leave. Some other folks unload/load in their cars.

    Why the outhouse? I'm a prostate cancer survivor. First place I visit after arriving is the outhouse, last place I visit before leaving is the outhouse.

    Works for me. YMMV

    Fitch

  15. #29
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    The more unsupervised people there are, the greater the "stupid potential" goes up. It's just a fact of life and naturally, in this litigious society we live in, you can't blame anyone for wanting to cover their butts.
    If I wanted to compete, I'd just play by the rules. Just me.

    Personally though, I believe a 'hot" range is actually safer.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  16. #30
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICTsnub View Post
    I have no issue with someone taking control on a live fire range. But, I understand IDPA is a game about shooting your carry rig. How do you transition from carrying, to playing? Disarm in the car?
    Exactly. Our USPSA sanctioned range has dictated "safe areas" while on the range. Concealed carriers have always transitioned from their vehicles so far as I know. My wife and I do this each and every time we attend the club matches. Truth be known....the R.O. might do the same thing. Posted range regulations are one thing....but if the range and authorities cannot provide adequate and acceptable accommodations for to transition from your normal carry to your range pistol......there's going to be a problem IMO. A private club/range can make their own rules, but they still need to accept anyone legally carrying in that state and accommodate them equally.
    Are you too sensitive? I might look at things the same way as you and find a different club if things were unacceptable for me. Lots of clubs carry insurance, and need to remain absolved of liabilities. Thanks again to the over paid lawyers in this country. Everyone has to cover their ass nowadays with threat of legal action,,,,,,,(and thanks to the irresponsible individuals that seem to put more wood on the fire).
    Never consider yourself as being "sensitive" when you're thinking of things in the right way and reading word for word. Think of getting yourself out of any situation that's unacceptable, and going forward.

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