Am I too sensitive

This is a discussion on Am I too sensitive within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This was posted on my local IDPA clubs website. Am I too sensitive in thinking that this a) goes against what IDPA is all about ...

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Thread: Am I too sensitive

  1. #1
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Am I too sensitive

    This was posted on my local IDPA clubs website. Am I too sensitive in thinking that this a) goes against what IDPA is all about and b) creates a rule that it is nearly impossible to remain in compliance with?

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    "Shooters, Mecklenburg Wildlife Club and Mecklenburg Defensive Shooters, has spent a great deal of time and money to build a SAFE AREA for the back pistol berms. This new area is now ready and we will begin to use it this month at our IDPA match. This new area is close to the first conex box and behind the sign-in shack.

    This is now the only SAFE AREA to be used before, during, and after our matches. Please bring your weapon, in its container, bag, rug, box, glove, etc. along with your holster to the SAFE AREA. When you are facing into the SAFE AREA then you may un-bag, check, draw, dry-fire, holster, and otherwise prepare, for the match.

    As always there is to be NO ammunition in the SAFE AREA when you are handling you weapon.!!!!! Again, THAT IS NO AMMO IN THE SAFE AREA WHEN YOU ARE MANIPULATING ANY WEAPON.

    Backs of cars/trucks, sides of berms, etc., are no longer considered SAFE AREAS. Therefore, anyone violating this policy may be disqualified from the local match. Remember folks, Mecklenburg is a COLD RANGE, and the only place that you may handle any weapon is on the firing line under the supervision of the Safety Officer or in the SAFE AREA. We all greatly appreciate your help in this matter so that we may keep our range safe and operating as it has for many, many years.

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  3. #2
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    This seems to be a fairly common in IDPA from what I've seen on the IDPA and my local clubs' websites (I haven't shot IDPA, yet). The idea is to limit live ammo handling to where the safety officer can keep an eye on participants. Keep in mind that the IDPA match organizers don't know everyone that's participating, their experience, or level of discipline; yet, they are responsible for everyone's safety. The purpose of IDPA is to practice pistol skills in a safe manner. You do this by setting very strict rules for where and when live weapons are handled. It's the same reason that the military has these same rules for their training ranges.

    Think about it this way. Do you want some guy who you don't know sitting behind you fiddling with the gun he bought last week because he wants to practice taking the safety off? Do you want that guy to have live ammo on him? Do you trust that he won't sweep you with the muzzle? Do you trust that his finger isn't on the trigger?

    Don't take it personally.
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    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    I have no issue with someone taking control on a live fire range. But, I understand IDPA is a game about shooting your carry rig. How do you transition from carrying, to playing? Disarm in the car?
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    This is now the only SAFE AREA to be used before, during, and after our matches. As always there is to be NO ammunition in the SAFE AREA when you are handling you weapon.!

    Am I too sensitive in thinking that this a) goes against what IDPA is all about and b) creates a rule that it is nearly impossible to remain in compliance with?
    Makes a lot of sense, I think. It's common to have a specially-controlled "safe" area, from what I've seen. By comparison to uncontrolled access to loaded weapons, it's far safer. Won't have a chance of compliance, you think? Depends on your membership and their dedication to safety, as well as the layout of the range and this new "safe" area. So long as it's convenient and not some big, hairy pain in the neck, and so long as people go into it with an open mind and willingness to be safe at all times, I'd bet that it has a very good chance of succeeding. It'll only fail through gross resistance, or if it has been designed incredibly poorly.

    Look on the bright side: it's being done for improved safety, not merely to get anyone's goat.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    It is suppose to be about simulating carry and self defense. The major difference between this and real self defense is that if you lose you still go home. My personal opinion is that you are way more likely to make a mistake in a real life situation. There are lots of folks competeing that carry differently for compention than for CC SD. Every time I have been "real world tested" I drew a firearm from a table. That will give an unfair advantage to a firearm that you shoot well while handicapping a firearm that you carry well and deploy fairly well.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Personally I think the new rules make sense.

    With that said, some of us arrive at the Match already armed and need a "safe" area to unload our weapon and change ammo for the match. As long as that's done things are good to go as far as I'm concerned.

    Biker

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Those are the exact same rules posted at the local range where there are IDPA/USPSA matches held.

    Goes to show you that there are apparently just some people that make the sport unsafe enough not to trust the rest of us with loaded guns.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Makes a lot of sense, I think. It's common to have a specially-controlled "safe" area, from what I've seen. By comparison to uncontrolled access to loaded weapons, it's far safer. Won't have a chance of compliance, you think? Depends on your membership and their dedication to safety, as well as the layout of the range and this new "safe" area. So long as it's convenient and not some big, hairy pain in the neck, and so long as people go into it with an open mind and willingness to be safe at all times, I'd bet that it has a very good chance of succeeding. It'll only fail through gross resistance, or if it has been designed incredibly poorly.

    Look on the bright side: it's being done for improved safety, not merely to get anyone's goat.


    I agree...especially with the sentence in bold.
    Luis

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  10. #9
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICTsnub View Post
    I have no issue with someone taking control on a live fire range. But, I understand IDPA is a game about shooting your carry rig. How do you transition from carrying, to playing? Disarm in the car?
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN
    With that said, some of us arrive at the Match already armed and need a "safe" area to unload our weapon and change ammo for the match. As long as that's done things are good to go as far as I'm concerned.
    These are my issues. I carry the rig I use in IDPA and this would require that don't, as I would have to have my pistol in a gun rug when I entered the range. Also since there is no permissible area to have a loaded firearm there is no way to transition it from loaded and unloaded.

    Next since there is no ammo permitted in the safe area and I don't have a gun rug as I have no need for one, I would need to:

    1. Arrive Unarmed
    2. Carry my gear on to the range
    3. Remove all of my ammo from my range bag
    4. Leave said ammo unattended and carry my range bag to the safe area
    5. Remove my holstered unloaded weapon from my bag and put it on
    6. Take my range bag back to reclaim my ammo.


    The procedure before was unload my carry gun seated in my truck, reholster and go play.

  11. #10
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Look on the bright side: it's being done for improved safety, not merely to get anyone's goat.
    Show me a gun restriction not done for safety.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Our local IDPA suggests you discretely disarm and unload in/at your vehicle... This may change as more and more people exercise their R2KBA... Many folks don't have a lick of common sense... and a lot of them are becoming armed, because the 2nd amendment says so... They "get" the rights part, they just don't understand the responsibility part.

    For decades we have fought for these rights... Now, we're going to see the results... There will be more AD/ND incidents, there will be more people who carry "helping" law enforcement (and using a weapon when they shouldn't). And, mark my words here... it may take some time... but you will see more regulation as a result of it...
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
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    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Nope, this doesn't make any sense to me.

    You can't go to the SAFE AREA with the gun your carrying because it is loaded and no ammo is allowed in the safe area.

    Cars/trucks aren't a SAFE AREA and no manipulation can be done in those areas either. So no carrying a loaded weapon to and from the event, unless your carrying off body and then leave it in the car/truck. Then you have to removed your unloaded match gun from your car and carry it to the SAFE AREA to remove it from the case or whatever it was transported in.

    Makes no sense to me.

    It would make more sense to say no manipulation of any weapons or ammo except on the firing line. If your carrying to the event when it is your turn to shoot, you get to the line, pull out your carry piece, remove the defensive ammo, replace it with match ammo, and go about your business. When your done shooting you place your defensive ammo back into your gun on the line, reholster and go about your business.

    Hey, it is their range, they make the rules. Can't wait till one of the rule makers breaks them and gets ejected from the match.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  14. #13
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    These are my issues. I carry the rig I use in IDPA and this would require that don't, as I would have to have my pistol in a gun rug when I entered the range. Also since there is no permissible area to have a loaded firearm there is no way to transition it from loaded and unloaded.

    Next since there is no ammo permitted in the safe area and I don't have a gun rug as I have no need for one, I would need to:

    1. Arrive Unarmed
    2. Carry my gear on to the range
    3. Remove all of my ammo from my range bag
    4. Leave said ammo unattended and carry my range bag to the safe area
    5. Remove my holstered unloaded weapon from my bag and put it on
    6. Take my range bag back to reclaim my ammo.


    The procedure before was unload my carry gun seated in my truck, reholster and go play.
    Its their range - Its their rules.
    If something doesn't work for you, talk to them and see if you can work it out. I’m guessing they want you there as much as you want to be there. If not, find another range.
    We can offer opinions, but can’t do much to solve your dilemma.
    Maybe you need 2 carry guns – 1 loaded, 1 unloaded. There’s another opinion.
    Good luck.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    If you can't stand the thought of going to the range without packing for this event, follow the following steps:

    1) Have the firearm in an open gun rug on the passenger seat of your car, unloaded.

    2) Carry a loaded mag between your legs or within reach while you drive...this gives you quick access to a loaded firearm.

    3) Upon pulling onto range property, zip up the rug and drop the mag into your range bag.

    4) Relax and have a great shoot.
    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    Show me a gun restriction not done for safety.
    I don't mean in the anti-gunner, knee-jerk, merely claimed sense of the word.

    Obviously I mean in the basic sense of the word: safety, as in pointing all muzzles in the same direction when anyone is futzing with ammo. It's hard to claim any safety at all, when people are milling around in all directions and there is loading/unloading going on everywhere. That's a good way to get someone killed.

    Propose a safe way of having loading/unloading of ammunition. I'm sure such alternatives will be useful for comparison.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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