Joined my Church's "Safety & Security" team this week...........very impressed. - Page 4

Joined my Church's "Safety & Security" team this week...........very impressed.

This is a discussion on Joined my Church's "Safety & Security" team this week...........very impressed. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 I'm sure nearly all members of my synagogue would be equally confident that no one there is armed. I understand what ...

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Thread: Joined my Church's "Safety & Security" team this week...........very impressed.

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I'm sure nearly all members of my synagogue would be equally confident that no one there is armed.
    I understand what you were getting at when you asked. All I can say is that I'm a member of a very small church and know every person capable of carrying firearms personally, and I'm confident that none of them carry.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand


  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    I understand what you were getting at when you asked. All I can say is that I'm a member of a very small church and know every person capable of carrying firearms personally, and I'm confident that none of them carry.
    How many of them know you are armed?
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by carryon View Post
    Well, it's that time of year at church when they have a "day of training" where church members are asked to go to some brief classes about a ministry in the church they are interested in serving in (Music worship, communion, greeters, nursery workers, etc.). I saw "Safety & Security Team" so I promptly signed up and attended the meeting. Before this interaction my only knowledge of "Security" during church was the county sheriff they hire to linger in the parking lot and direct traffic during services, and of course my PF9 that is always on me. I was impressed as I waited for the meeting to start when I saw other members I knew were LEO's come walking in. The passed out the current year's calendar with who was assigned to which of the various posts during each of the two Sunday services. They outlined the duties of each post, reviewed the security guidelines and procedures, training dates, recent radio upgrades, etc.. I introduced myself and two of the guys I know well vouched for me and I was welcomed onto the team. The leader somehow already knew I had federal LE training and asked me about that. Kind of freaky he already knew about me, but kind of comforting at the same time.

    The topic of concealed carry came up and this was the dialogue:

    TEAM COORDINATOR: "Do you have a CCW permit?"
    ME: "Yes."
    TEAM COORDINATOR: "Good. Please carry when you are working a post and use it if you have to. Our minister has granted this team the power to act on behalf of the church when handling a security situation."
    ME: "Sounds good."

    That was it. I left the meeting very comforted by having such a team at our church, even though it's not a huge church (about 800 members per week). I have attended this church for about one year and several issues that I believed were security issues, for instance in the nursery area, were already being addressed by this team. I also didn't realize how many people I knew who were on the security team and carry each Sunday! I've never "made" someone at our church so apparently we have some folks very good at concealing! I can't wait to go through the training and start working a post.
    Sounds awesome...I pastor a church here in a small SC town. A lot smaller than you're "not so big" church (About 30 people per week). My father is our security team (He always carries) and I'm currently trying to work out a rig for the pulpit to hold a firearm. It's getting rough out here but it's where God has called us. While I'm alive our members will not be victims.
    Gun Control: Using both hands

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    How many of them know you are armed?
    I'll let Mike roll with this one,,again, same question.....WHy would you let folks know you carry? Many church and workplace shootings happen by someone who attends the church or workplace. Anybody can snap. You would be the number one target.

    I was at church the other day and my pastor askedme something about firearms...he might assume I carry but no way on earth would I even let my pastor know.

    Just my 2 cent.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    How many of them know you are armed?
    All of the men who own firearms know I carry. I'm not worried about any one "snapping" at my church and going on a rampage, considering most of the members are either really young or really old. And if someone targets me, then so be it. I'm not immortal and the time of my death is set in stone anyway. I consider my church as family and don't mind others knowing that I'm sitting in the back, watching to see if someone bursts through the doors looking for a fight. If I had the attitude that no one should know that I carried, I would certainly keep that to myself and my wife. But, I've made my choices, and while I don't broadcast to strangers that I carry, I don't mind sharing it with those who I absolutely trust. If I would lay my life down for them, I'm OK with them knowing that I'd do it with a pistol in my hand.
    Ksgunner, Ogre and Paymeister like this.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    All of the men who own firearms know I carry. I'm not worried about any one "snapping" at my church and going on a rampage, considering most of the members are either really young or really old. And if someone targets me, then so be it. I'm not immortal and the time of my death is set in stone anyway. I consider my church as family and don't mind others knowing that I'm sitting in the back, watching to see if someone bursts through the doors looking for a fight. If I had the attitude that no one should know that I carried, I would certainly keep that to myself and my wife. But, I've made my choices, and while I don't broadcast to strangers that I carry, I don't mind sharing it with those who I absolutely trust. If I would lay my life down for them, I'm OK with them knowing that I'd do it with a pistol in my hand.
    That isn't why I asked, but OK. In lethal force situations, I am going to trust absolutely no one to do anything right. When violence erupts, people panic, and may do dangerous, senseless things.
    mlr1m likes this.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  7. #52
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    That isn't why I asked, but OK. In lethal force situations, I am going to trust absolutely no one to do anything right. When violence erupts, people panic, and may do dangerous, senseless things.
    That's fine. I was actually responding to you and suntzu, but I probably should have made that clear. I apologize for making it seem that it was entirely towards you.

    I agree that people do panic in such situations. In fact, I'm not sure how I would react. I've done really well under stressful conditions before, but I've never been in a life-or-death situation, so I don't know how I would react. Regardless of how others react, I still don't mind others (who I consider spiritual family) to know I'm looking out for them to the best of my ability. If they use it against me, then so be it. I can't control what others do; I can only control what I do. And even then, I know I have very little control over things, in general.

    I live by the motto of "God is sovereign and man is responsible". A different spin on that would be the saying "work like you haven't prayed, and pray like you haven't worked". I do everything in my power to do the right thing and be responsible, but I know that ultimately, God is in control over my life. I can be as prepared as I can possibly be and be killed in some "random" event that I had no control over. That's just how life works. I'm not trusting in anyone else to save me and I don't trust myself to save others (or even myself). I can only train and carry and hope that the Lord delivers me and those I love from the wickedness of others.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    That's fine. I was actually responding to you and suntzu, but I probably should have made that clear. I apologize for making it seem that it was entirely towards you.

    I agree that people do panic in such situations. In fact, I'm not sure how I would react. I've done really well under stressful conditions before, but I've never been in a life-or-death situation, so I don't know how I would react. Regardless of how others react, I still don't mind others (who I consider spiritual family) to know I'm looking out for them to the best of my ability. If they use it against me, then so be it. I can't control what others do; I can only control what I do. And even then, I know I have very little control over things, in general.

    I live by the motto of "God is sovereign and man is responsible". A different spin on that would be the saying "work like you haven't prayed, and pray like you haven't worked". I do everything in my power to do the right thing and be responsible, but I know that ultimately, God is in control over my life. I can be as prepared as I can possibly be and be killed in some "random" event that I had no control over. That's just how life works. I'm not trusting in anyone else to save me and I don't trust myself to save others (or even myself). I can only train and carry and hope that the Lord delivers me and those I love from the wickedness of others.
    I personally see no advantages, and many disadvantages in having those within (or without) my circle privy to the fact I carry. It has nothing to do with trust, God, faith or religious outlook, but rather human nature, personal opinions and discretion.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  9. #54
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I personally see no advantages, and many disadvantages in having those within (or without) my circle privy to the fact I carry. It has nothing to do with trust, God, faith or religious outlook, but rather human nature, personal opinions and discretion.
    That's fine and I'm not saying anyone else should do what I do in this regard. Like I said, I've made my choices and I'm comfortable with them and will take responsibility for any consequences that may come about because of those choices.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    That's fine and I'm not saying anyone else should do what I do in this regard. Like I said, I've made my choices and I'm comfortable with them and will take responsibility for any consequences that may come about because of those choices.
    Likewise on all points.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    We have a religion active today that regards all other religions as (more or less) satanic, to be exterminated. We have people in the US who regard religious people as fools and sub humans, a very short step from supporting wiping out everyone who goes to church or synagogue. History is full of examples of people being targetted for death while at worship for less.

    What sort of la-la land idiot would NOT regard some sort of security as necessary, eventually if not NOW? Faith in your god is great for where your soul spends eternity, it does nothing for where your butt ends up in the near future.

  12. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwollard View Post
    I am an Elder at my church and this very topic has come up between me and a few of our congregation members. We currently do not have a security team and I would like to try and come with a proposal to our Session (the leaders). I do have a LE background and currently work in the field, but there seems to not be a lot of information within our LE community about this subject. Does your church have written policies and are they (you) willing to share this information with another church? Thanks for any help.
    You might wish to contact Michael Smith (via Firearms Training Roanoke Bedford) - he offers church security consulting. He may have some resources for you. He's a good guy.
    Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com

  13. #58
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    Well, when we set up communion a few days ago we set out seven glasses of wine... our church isn't quite that small: each family gets a glass to pass among themselves - but you get the idea.

    We have two who carry that I know of, and one more when he's in town. No nursery, no counseling program, no parking lot traffic direction (but hey, we're on a paved road, in a county which is very proud of its one traffic signal).

    We're sincere though afflicted with the typical human warts, but we're workin' on learning and becoming who we ought to be. But 'big' isn't in the vocabulary. Still, our security team (me) recognizes each and every church member and nearly all visitors by sight.

    To tell the truth I can't imagine the logistics nightmare you folks with the 'not so big' 800 member-or-bigger churches have. May the Lord bless your efforts!
    GeorgiaDawg likes this.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    We have a religion active today that regards all other religions as (more or less) satanic, to be exterminated. We have people in the US who regard religious people as fools and sub humans, a very short step from supporting wiping out everyone who goes to church or synagogue. History is full of examples of people being targetted for death while at worship for less.

    What sort of la-la land idiot would NOT regard some sort of security as necessary, eventually if not NOW? Faith in your god is great for where your soul spends eternity, it does nothing for where your butt ends up in the near future.
    Lots of folks who would normally be considered level-headed and reasonable, have their heads stuck in the sand with regard to violence and esp violence in church. They have the attitude "It can't happen here." (which is exactly why security plans/risk assessment should be thought through).
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    You might wish to contact Michael Smith (via Firearms Training Roanoke Bedford) - he offers church security consulting. He may have some resources for you. He's a good guy.
    Also, look up Tina Lewis Rowe from Colorado. Has good material to help you setup a policy. Lots of good advice and direction and the price is right. "free". Just ask her to send the material to you. Good stuff. Going to one of her seminars next week.

    Tina Lewis Rowe

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