Nosy kid almost makes me...

This is a discussion on Nosy kid almost makes me... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I took a job as an adjunct instructor at an area junior college teaching 2 classes this fall. Of course when you hit campus there ...

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Thread: Nosy kid almost makes me...

  1. #1
    Member Array Chainman's Avatar
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    Nosy kid almost makes me...

    I took a job as an adjunct instructor at an area junior college teaching 2 classes this fall. Of course when you hit campus there are the big NO WEAPONS signs. I arrive at my first day of class with my weapon dutifully locked in the secure box in the truck. Once the class all files in I go to close and lock the door, no lock, no phones in the class and the walls are mere 5/8" drywall over steel studs.

    I take my concerns to a Criminal Justice instructor who is also a police officer on campus. I asked what to do if we have a shooter on campus. He says yell for him, cause the school has no plan. I then comment on his "criminals welcome, Gun Free Zone" sign in his office, and tell him I'll be yelling on my way to the truck to retrieve my weapon. Conversation progresses through crappy laws, sheep administrators, and overall weak building, at the end of it he says "just do what you think you need to do to keep you and your students safe"

    So I follow his advice and do what I need to do. Now out of curiosity, and because of an encounter with a student, I pull the statutes. From what I read in 571.030 of RsMO Subsection 1 part 10 says a weapon is a NO NO on schools. But in Subsection 4 it says "Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state. "

    The way I understand this I'm back to just a simple trespass as described in the CCW statute for MO. I haven't had my lawyer look at it yet. Anybody got opinions. Am I misreading this.

    The encounter with the student-
    I had a student notice the belt clips on my IWB and says "My dad's got the same holster. Whats in yours?" That day we were outside so I had placed the weapon in the truck (5 steps away) because I knew I would be up and down a lot and didn't want to print, so luckily I was able to show him the empty holster and say "Nothing, go on about your rat killing". I know the kid and his family. I am thinking of pulling him aside after class and reminding him to keep shut.
    Being shot in the process of committing a crime provides potent Pavlovian conditioning to the perpetrator.

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  3. #2
    Member Array stlouiseman's Avatar
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    INMO, seeing as I am in MO as well, I would get a deeper concealment (smart carry) or find a way to hide the clips, or keep it handy in a briefcase. I work downtown in small company. We have pepper spray at the front desk and until recent, a brash of car break-ins. I am considering the above options, because even though my boss is a gun owner there is still a "no gun" policy in the handbook. Schools are on the list and the only one my instructor said not to mess with is federal buildings. I also wouldn't mess with any government building as well. It is unfortunate that a student already recognized it, but since you know him maybe you could keep him quiet...maybe. The choice is yours and you would be wise to review it with a lawyer. Good luck and stay safe.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    When you hit campus..? before you even enter a building? You better have your lawyer look at all the statutes... IIRC properly posted property, public or private, in MO might mean no weapons anywhere on campus (to include in your locked car in some states) I am not certain of the laws in your state.

    As far as talking to the kid, call his dad, ask his dad what he carries in his holster. When he asks you what you mean, tell him his kid told you he carried.... pause long for effect.... a holster just like mine. If his dad has any beans in his noggin, he'll talk to the boy...
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  5. #4
    Member Array Chainman's Avatar
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    I have changed the clips out already. Wearing a Crossbreed ST with their belt. I put the velcro front J clips on this morning. Tried it out and the holster is broken in well enough that they hold good. I'll be sure and tuck my shirt today so Nosy can see no clips on my belt. I still might put the weapon in my Maxpedition bag that I carry my computer and lecture notes in just in case I get asked in the next few meetings.
    Being shot in the process of committing a crime provides potent Pavlovian conditioning to the perpetrator.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    I've got the velcro clips for my ST, I just haven't tried them yet. Need to find them and give them a try....

    So the belt you got from them, does it have velcro loops already or did you put on the adhesive stuff they send?
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    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
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    I'm glad you checked your state's laws. You should check to find out exactly what "school" refers to. In some states "school" refers to K-12, and in some any formal education facility that could be accredited by the state. Does your state consider a college or university a school in regards to the concealed carry Laws? In Virginia "school" refers to K-12 and not colleges or universities. Colleges and universities here can form there own policy just like a private place of business. Violation of those policies can get you suspended or expelled if you are a student or fire if you are an employee.

  8. #7
    Member Array Chainman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
    I'm glad you checked your state's laws. You should check to find out exactly what "school" refers to. In some states "school" refers to K-12, and in some any formal education facility that could be accredited by the state. Does your state consider a college or university a school in regards to the concealed carry Laws? In Virginia "school" refers to K-12 and not colleges or universities. Colleges and universities here can form there own policy just like a private place of business. Violation of those policies can get you suspended or expelled if you are a student or fire if you are an employee.
    Chapter 571 is not clear on what constitutes a school, worst case scenario I get fired. Only teaching because I want the program to stay alive, the pay isn't worth my time. But I do intend to have my lawyer (wife) look at it for me and give her opinion

    paaiyan

    I've got the velcro clips for my ST, I just haven't tried them yet. Need to find them and give them a try....

    So the belt you got from them, does it have velcro loops already or did you put on the adhesive stuff they send?
    I bought the belt with the velcro sewn on the inside
    Being shot in the process of committing a crime provides potent Pavlovian conditioning to the perpetrator.

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    Member Array Pepsi's Avatar
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    mouths speak, i can imagen the kid either for u carrying or against u carrying

    " my teacher carries, he makes me feel safe. "

    " my teacher carries, he looks ____ , maybe he'll shoot up the school one day"

    i say u have a talk with him , seems like since his dad carries hes prob more open to people carrying...good luck stay safe.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I'd recommend SmartCarry. No clips at all for someone to see. Wear pleated pants and no one will ever know at all.
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    Member Array NavyC4S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainman View Post
    The encounter with the student-
    I had a student notice the belt clips on my IWB and says "My dad's got the same holster. Whats in yours?" That day we were outside so I had placed the weapon in the truck (5 steps away) because I knew I would be up and down a lot and didn't want to print, so luckily I was able to show him the empty holster and say "Nothing, go on about your rat killing". I know the kid and his family. I am thinking of pulling him aside after class and reminding him to keep shut.
    In my opinion, the kid was just being a kid, and trying to show off. Everyone likes to talk about things they know about, or think they know about and this was the case here. Why wouldn't he want to try and find common ground with his professor.

    You can talk to him after class, but I'd do it off campus because then you might be overstepping your job description and open yourself to legal action for preaching non school related topics.

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    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    When you hit campus..? before you even enter a building? You better have your lawyer look at all the statutes... IIRC properly posted property, public or private, in MO might mean no weapons anywhere on campus (to include in your locked car in some states) I am not certain of the laws in your state.

    As far as talking to the kid, call his dad, ask his dad what he carries in his holster. When he asks you what you mean, tell him his kid told you he carried.... pause long for effect.... a holster just like mine. If his dad has any beans in his noggin, he'll talk to the boy...
    I don't know about Missouri and Iowa, but here in Louisiana a law was just passed that allows firearms on school property, but not in school buildings. I think it had something to do with your vehicle being an extension of your home, thus allowing firearms to be kept in your vehicle.
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  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    I HATE the "victim Enriched Zones" on college campuses.... very stupid people making the laws there is not a nice way to say it. just stupid
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    Ex Member Array WhoWeBePart1's Avatar
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    Why should he have to shut up? He noticed the holster and was curious. Humans are curious but telling him to mind his own and shut up is not the proper approach in my opinion.

    If someone was to pull me aside, such as yourself in this situation, tell me to mind my own and shut up you. I will end up telling someone else how I was treated by your actions.

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I'm not going to offer legal advice!

    If you want to be more discreet, I'd also suggest the Smartcarry with dark pleated pants, or pocket carry of a smaller gun.

    Even with the velcro clips, a IWB holster leaves a "hump" on your hip/belt that is visible to anyone paying attention when you have your shirt tucked. It's not the best carry method when discretion is called for.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    New Member Array ranger1's Avatar
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    You started out in the right place, keep reading in your concealed carry book secton 571.107.1 (10)
    Any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility without the consent of the governing body of the higher education institution or a school official or the district school board. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility SHALL NOT be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises.

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