What is it with all the LEO threads?

This is a discussion on What is it with all the LEO threads? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by farronwolf . . . if everyone did what they were supposed to and didn't speed, or run stop signs, or had the ...

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Thread: What is it with all the LEO threads?

  1. #16
    Member Array av8er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    . . . if everyone did what they were supposed to and didn't speed, or run stop signs, or had the proper registration, or you name it, you wouldn't find yourself in contact with the LEO.
    Do you really believe that to ALWAYS be the case?

    ;)

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Sorry if I am stepping on toes here, but what the heck is it with all the LEO encounter threads lately? It seems like over the past couple of weeks or so there has been an increased number of threads, most of them end up being a bash the LEO by the time it is all said and done.
    No flames, just some observations. Certain threads that seem to run in cycles with tremendous popularity are:
    - HOORAY!!! I JUST APPLIED FOR MY CCW!!! OK, glad to hear it... (yawn).
    - HOORAY!!! I JUST ORDERED MY CROSSBREED SUPERTUCK!!! Is this the ONLY holster you've ever tried? (Bigger yawn.)
    - HOORAY!!! I JUST DID A WALLY-WORLD WALK AND SURVIVED!!! This post is fine when done with humor and obvious tongue in cheek, but when people post this seriously??? Oh my soul.
    - HOORAY!!! MY CCW JUST ARRIVED TODAY AFTER 67 DAYS, 23 HOURS, 17 MINUTES AND 48 SECONDS!!! Cool beans. Walk proudly and cautiously among the sheep, and if you do go armed to Wal-Mart, keep it to yourself.

    Plus more... feel free to list your own categories of posts which really add little or nothing to the sum of useful knowledge on this site.

    This month's "special" seems to be LEO encounters, and I'm happy that the majority of these turn out well for the CCW holder. But after a while, they do become pretty routine and only the ones that turn out badly are in the category of man-bites-dog news. No insult intended, but before posting (in other than the off-topic or Bob & Terry forums) people should really assess if their new thread really adds some worthwhile knowledge or opinions to this site, or if it just takes up server space. Just call me jaded.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    It does seem so. It is a bit amusing to see the frequent suggestions to "lawyer up" over a perceived bad attitude shown by a cop. No ticket or citation, off with just a warning. But the cop was rude and unprofesional and he needs to lose his job.
    When I was a union rep in my old department I spent a fair bit of time at internal affairs. I was not always there as a rep. In fifteen years the only complaint sustained against me was for insubordination. The only reason that was sustained was there were twenty witnesses and when I was questioned about it I stated I did it and in similar circumstances I would do it again.
    Not a single citizen complaint against me ever sustained.

    What most people don't realize is how hard it is to get an officer fired.
    First, you have to show why they should believe you, a total stranger, over someone that the department has selected through an extensive and expensive and validated selection process. Why is it that this person that got through this selection process just wants to make your life miserable? What would be their motive for lying about you? How does that compare with your possible motives to lie about them?

    Second, you have to prove that the officer actually violated your rights, or broke some other law, or at least some department regulation.

    Third, you have to convince them that this person they know so well and have tested so thoroughly is going to be such an ongoing liability to the them that they are better off throwing away the hundred thousand dollars they have invested in them than to risk continuing their employment.

    "Courtesy violations" if they resulted in anything it was never more than a counseling statement. And sometimes those counseling statements were that the officer was not assertive/aggressive enough. Either way those sat in the officers supervisor's file until one year from the incident and then hit the shredder.

    So most of these things, I just smile and nod.....
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    This is one of my favorite threads. Ever. I'm glad someone said it

  6. #20
    Member Array CajunBass's Avatar
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    I suspect for a lot of people it's because they do have so few interactions with the police that even one stands out as exceptional.
    For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Sorry if I am stepping on toes here, but what the heck is it with all the LEO encounter threads lately? It seems like over the past couple of weeks or so there has been an increased number of threads, most of them end up being a bash the LEO by the time it is all said and done.

    Folks are questioning whether or not the LEO should be asking certain questions during the stop, or whether or not the LEO was nice enough during the encounter, or if the LEO was ate up with himself or mad about something that occurred earlier in the day.

    I honestly don't get a lot of this.

    First of all, if everyone did what they were supposed to and didn't speed, or run stop signs, or had the proper registration, or you name it, you wouldn't find yourself in contact with the LEO.

    Second, the statements have been made that LEO's should act more professionally since they are law enforcement and they should be held to a higher standard of behavior. HELLO FOLKS, AREN'T WE CHL HOLDERS SUPPOSED TO HOLD OURSELVES TO HIGHER STANDARDS THAN THE AVERAGE JOE. If you want to hold their feet to the fire, then everyone go in the bathroom, look in the mirror and tell yourself to act more responsibly because you have taken on the responsibility of carrying a weapon every day. Stop doing stupid, dangerous or other things that are against the law that make you come into contact with the LEOs.

    Thirdly, this is Defensive Carry. There is nothing that coming into contact with a LEO has anything to do with defensive carry. Coming into contact with a LEO is a carry issue, but only to the extent that we all act with caution and follow our state laws in regards to notifying the LEO about our carry, or that we keep our hands in view etc.

    Fourth, these LEO encounter threads are becoming about as interesting as what do you do with your gun when you go to the crapper. It gets old after about 10 go arounds.

    Ok, off of the soap box. Let the flaming begin.
    I agree 100%! There does not seem to be any middle of the road...the threads show either outright disdain or an almost god like fear of the officer. They are people at work just like you and I. I show respect to my doctor but I don't equate divinity to him. If I disagree with my boss at work I will let him know my feelings but I don't "thumb" my nose at him and tell him off. There is a thread somewhere about not talking to the police anymore than necessary (I will try to locate it) but it seems most people on the forum can't wait to shove a permit under the officer's nose and tell them they are armed. If you live in a state that requires notification upon "official" contact...do so but don't do and/or say anything more unless asked to do so.
    I guess I just don't get stopped often enough or something but the few times I have over the many years of going armed I have NEVER been ask if I am in possession of a firearm; never. The only question I ever got was "have you consumed any alcohol today and if so how much?". The very few I came into contact with that seemed out of sorts were easily quelled by simple yes/no answers and eye to eye contact and/or NOT answering questions they had no business asking. You will find out quickly if they are on a "fishing expedition" with that tactic. If its not an up and up question a non reply and steady eye contact (not defiant) will change the subject quickly.

    Well as the "farronwolf" has stated just follow the rules and you won't be in the situation to start with.
    Who is John Galt?

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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array TJK68's Avatar
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    Simple solution..... do not look at them. What is important to you might not be to some one else, or the other way around. I think that there is a lot of dumb posts on here, I just don't look at them, some just post threads or comments to increase post count. Some on here will post on every thread, one guy on here posts in every 1911 thread about how much he thinks his EDC is better than a 1911, yet he has never shot or owned a 1911 and has only been carrying 3-4 months. This guy has only been a member for a couple months and already has close to 2000 posts, he comments on everything, even if he has no real knowledge about it, whatever. My point is this is a forum and he as a member has the right to do so and post what he likes. To some the LEO encounter posts are important, not everyone is ex-CIA-MARINE-FBI-NAVYSEAL-POLICESNIPER-ZOMBIEKILLER trained all rolled into one, they are new to CC and firearms. I agree with some of what you say, but you and I both just used up server space expressing our opinions, that some............ think was stupid. Just my 2 cents.

  9. #23
    Member Array KWAG's Avatar
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    I find the threads interesting myself. I find the different thoughts on ALL the subjects interesting. Living in my little world in Miss. it amazing to me how different our thinking patterns are from region to region....which is not a bad thing. It's almost like people watching without the people.

  10. #24
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    Because in this economy, there are more citations issued. Citations up in bad economy

    Hence, more people (on this or any other forum) are going to have more encounters with police.

    There is an additional "consideration" that comes into play for those of us on THIS forum rather than on, say, a quilting forum.

    If there is something noteworthy about the LEO encounter, ie: first time, bad interaction, exremely professional encounter, etc., it may deserve consideration here.

    We gain important information, certain counties LEOs are anti-permit (in some states), that comes to light in these discussions.

    If you're not interested, I can understand that... you can skip the post or even mark it read...
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  11. #25
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Sorry if I am stepping on toes here, but what the heck is it with all the LEO encounter threads lately? It seems like over the past couple of weeks or so there has been an increased number of threads, most of them end up being a bash the LEO by the time it is all said and done.

    Folks are questioning whether or not the LEO should be asking certain questions during the stop, or whether or not the LEO was nice enough during the encounter, or if the LEO was ate up with himself or mad about something that occured earlier in the day.

    I honestly don't get a lot of this.

    First of all, if everyone did what they were supposed to and didn't speed, or run stop signs, or had the proper registration, or you name it, you wouldn't find yourself in contact with the LEO.

    Second, the statements have been made that LEO's should act more professionally since they are law enforcement and they should be held to a higher standard of behavior. HELLO FOLKS, AREN'T WE CHL HOLDERS SUPPOSED TO HOLD OURSELVES TO HIGHER STANDARDS THAN THE AVERAGE JOE. If you want to hold their feet to the fire, then everyone go in the bathroom, look in the mirror and tell yourself to act more responsibly because you have taken on the responsibilty of carrying a weapon every day. Stop doing stupid, dangerous or other things that are against the law that make you come into contact with the LEO's.

    Thirdly, this is Defensive Carry. There is nothing that coming into contact with a LEO has anything to do with defensive carry. Coming into contact with a LEO is a carry issue, but only to the extent that we all act with caution and follow our state laws in regards to notifying the LEO about our carry, or that we keep our hands in view etc.

    Fourth, these LEO encounter threads are becoming about as interesting as what do you do with your gun when you go to the crapper. It gets old after about 10 go arounds.

    Ok, off of the soap box. Let the flaming begin.

    If I follow you long enough I guarantee I will find something to pull you over for. Just an FYI

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    If I follow you long enough I guarantee I will find something to pull you over for. Just an FYI
    You assume I won't notice you are following me and pull into a parking lot or something for an unscheduled shopping trip. If it is common for you to do this, I would suggest there are too many officers in your department and they could save money by reducing the force.

    Or, am I to take it that you enjoy reading all the LEO threads?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    no flames, just some observations. Certain threads that seem to run in cycles with tremendous popularity are:
    SNIP
    this month's "special" seems to be leo encounters, and i'm happy that the majority of these turn out well for the ccw holder. But after a while, they do become pretty routine and only the ones that turn out badly are in the category of man-bites-dog news. No insult intended, but before posting (in other than the off-topic or bob & terry forums) people should really assess if their new thread really adds some worthwhile knowledge or opinions to this site, or if it just takes up server space. Just call me jaded.
    bingo!

    Quote Originally Posted by tjk68 View Post
    simple solution..... Do not look at them. What is important to you might not be to some one else, or the other way around. I think that there is a lot of dumb posts on here, i just don't look at them,
    SNIP
    + 1

    It's not a matter of "just dumb." There are a lot that don't interest me, at the moment.

    YMMV, Different strokes, etc.
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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    I agree 100%! There does not seem to be any middle of the road...
    I respectfully disagree. Over the course of several threads, a middle of the road does show up. To those of us who are fairly new, and have had little to no discourse with LEOs before, the middle may be a little foggy. Then, over time and conversations here, it becomes clearer. To some of us this is all old hat. To others, it may be important information.

    the threads show either outright disdain or an almost god like fear of the officer.
    You have a right to your opinion. But black and white thinking does no one any good. There is a lot of middle ground here.

    They are people at work just like you and I.I show respect to my doctor but I don't equate divinity to him. If I disagree with my boss at work I will let him know my feelings but I don't "thumb" my nose at him and tell him off. There is a thread somewhere about not talking to the police anymore than necessary (I will try to locate it)
    My doctor can't shove my nose into concrete and handcuff me. My boss can't put me in jail to be raped and beaten by inmates (or guards). A run-in with my dentist won't get me a $10k - $100k lawsuit.

    There are reasons why many people have problems with authority figures. These threads help figure out the right path to walk. If you are already sure of that path, ignore the thread.

    Well as the "farronwolf" has stated just follow the rules and you won't be in the situation to start with.
    Naive.
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  15. #29
    Member Array texxas guy's Avatar
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    I think a lot of it has to do with the new CCW holder and the apprehension
    of that first "pullover by the police" with you having a gun. I know I think about it a lot. I do my best to obey all traffic rules, but sometimes it just happens.
    I have yet to have my first LEO encounter while armed, and while not afraid of what will happen, there is some apprehension involved....ie, cops are human, what if this guy is having a bad day? I think that's a normal reaction for someone who is carrying a gun. Personally, I find the threads interesting, as they emcompass various parts of this country and as such, can reflect different reactions from the police in that particular area. If I don't find it interesting, I just move on. JMO
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    ... most of [the threads] end up being a bash the LEO by the time it is all said and done.

    First of all, if everyone did what they were supposed to and didn't speed, or run stop signs, or had the proper registration, or you name it, you wouldn't find yourself in contact with the LEO.

    HELLO FOLKS, AREN'T WE CHL HOLDERS SUPPOSED TO HOLD OURSELVES TO HIGHER STANDARDS THAN THE AVERAGE JOE.
    Absolutely right. Well said.

    Then, there are certainly folks in all walks of life who obtain whatever work who decide they'll take their job "responsibilities" to a higher level, to the point of being particularly hard-nosed, particularly diligent (ie, following behind a driver so long until something is found), commission of roughing up the individual occurs because the power exists, or whatever. Reality is, simply because there are a few threads being discussed at any given time about this or that situation doesn't mean it's prevalent across the country, or that it's not getting better. It's much like posting stories about the bad performance of a given firearm, in which even dozens of such threads doesn't necessarily imply the whole brand/model is trash.

    In the end, it is what it is: a discussion thread of some interest to some people. As with anything else, don't like it? Then, don't read them and don't post in them. Or, consider using the little "report" icon whenever a particularly egregious thread comes along that's outside the rules. Probably better for the BP doing it that way, anyway.
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