September 11th, 2010 11:07 AM
WHAT!!??? No Glock revolvers??? I wanted to buy one. BUMMER!
Originally Posted by cammo girl
September 11th, 2010 12:48 PM
The threads are useful. They allow us to say "Well, if thata happened to me Ida told the cop.......," while in reality these threads allow us to run various scenarios through our heads and have better responses in mind in case it happens to us. I feel I'm better prepared to avoiud a confrontation after reading the threads.
September 11th, 2010 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by farronwolf
"Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson
September 11th, 2010 03:27 PM
I don't read threads about LEO encounters with the exception of this one.
Why is it a big deal? If your state requires you notify just say, "Officer I'm required by state law to notify you that I am carrying a firearm". Of if your state doesn't require notification say nothing about it.
As I see it people who post these encounters must have an unusual interest in anything relating to law enforcement. Perhaps they should look into becoming LEO's themselves. I myself have never been an LEO but have always had a healthy respect for what they do. As I've gotten older my respect and appreciation has only grown.
Couple days ago I was sitting in a Subway having lunch. I noticed a county sheriff deputy walk across the parking lot and enter the store. As he walked across the lot I noticed he had a limp. A few seconds later he walked back to his car and left. Again I noticed the limp. I realized he had left because of the very long line to place an order. It gave me a terrible feeling.
This gentleman had probably been injured during military service or in the course of performing his duties as a police officer. It left him with a pronounced limp but he was still in uniform performing a vital service to the general public. He obviously didn't have time to wait in the long line to buy his lunch. He was as hungry as the rest of us but just didn't have the time. I wanted to run out into the parking lot and escort him to the front of the line but most officers are a modest bunch and he wouldn't have allowed it even if everyone in front of him had insisted.
The bottom line is we owe our cops and our military personnel everything. That thing about laying your life on the line every time you got to work is no joke.
"You have to answer for Santino, Carlo. You fingered Sonny for the Barzini people."
September 11th, 2010 04:59 PM
Your story prompted an old memory, a good one, maybe 15 years ago. I was with one of my kids one winter night at a McDonalds when 2 local cops walked in to get coffee - nothing else. The store manager directed a kid behind the counter to wait on the cops at an empty register. Some loudmouth jerk waiting in a separate, not very long line, started complaining loudly about why the [unprintable-ing] cops got waited on first. A few of us just stared at the guy in disbelief, but he persisted and got louder still. The cops looked a little embarrassed and made motions to leave without getting their coffee. The manager then called Loudmouth over and took his order, got it for him in a bag, and told the guy to leave the store NOW - without paying. He then proceeded to wave off the money the cops started to offer. MY idea of a class act.
Originally Posted by wvshooter
NRA Endowment Member
September 11th, 2010 05:11 PM
I appreciate the support of those in here who respect us in the Law Enforcement business and I take no offense in anyone talking about their encounters as long as you do not have a problem with me telling you to put yourself in our shoes. As for the ones who made claims in here that we routinely disarm people on traffic stops that is bogus atleast in my typical encounter with any armed if the initial stop was related to a traffic offense minus any other circumstance. If you act like a tool, for my safety I will disarm you before I conduct my business and that is so I can make it safer for me to go home to my family. If I pull you over and other circumstances dictate I hold your weapon so you do not have control of it for our encounter I can and will do that, but like I said that is usually very rare for say regular speeding enforcement. Absolutely us in Law Enforcement should not get a free pass to just expect people to put up with unfair treatment as we are lets face it "The Government Authority" and i take that into account when I hinder a citizens free movement. Bottom line, treat me with respect as I would you if you stopped me and you may not have your feeling hurt or worse. It's that simple and not unreasonable.
If you can read this thank a teacher. If it is written in English thank a Marine.
September 11th, 2010 06:05 PM
So...what do you do with your gun in the crapper??
Originally Posted by farronwolf
Anyway--I'm tracking with you....You'd think over the years DC.com (and it's predecessor CombatCarry.com) has been around, most of these questions would have been answered...
is a great function....answers most of the questions regarding guns and: kids, dogs, schools, churches, people who hate guns, family members who hate guns, midgets who hate guns, family who likes guns, "scaring sheep", "Went to ORANGE! Someone looked at me sideways in the grocery store....but I got her license plate number from her handicapped parking spot, how did I do?"....and the like.
handgunlaw.us answers 90% of the "Hey, in <insert state> can I (carry in my speedo, carry it in a black bag? Green bag?, duct taped to my head?)"; "what if someone looks at me while I'm OCing/CCing/thinking about OCing?
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
September 11th, 2010 07:48 PM
I, for one, hope no one thought I was saying it was routine.
Originally Posted by patrol
I was just saying that, here, a routine traffic stop is a "Terry Stop", in the eyes of the law. Therefore, the officer has (and IMHO should have) the authority to do a Terry pat down and disarm you, at his/her option -- for the officer's safety.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
September 11th, 2010 08:19 PM
But do you know why it is so difficult?
Originally Posted by av8er
Do you have any idea how many unfounded compalints are filed against officers?
Example: A friend of mine was driving the SWAT armored truck back to the barn after it was serviced. He and another officer stopped at KFC and grabbed lunch to go. A citizen called in and identified the officer by name, gave the location and time they bought lunch and their route back to the shed. They complained that while in traffic the officers were throwing chicken bones out the windows and one struck their car. When they complained to the officers at a traffic light the officers cussed them out and threw their sodas out the window at them.
The location of the officers was easily verified as being where these people said they were. The caller was refered to OIA and a copy of their call to E.C.C. was made for the investigator.
Only problem is that the windows of that truck dont open.....
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
September 11th, 2010 10:15 PM
Have you ever read the Terry decision? A routine traffic stop doesn't come close to the criteria set by the SCOTUS in Terry. I suggest that you look up the decision and read it in its entirety, especially the parts you won't like. That seems to be one of the most misused and misunderstood cases in history. It is not a blank check for LEOs to detain, search, or disarm law abiding citizens.
Originally Posted by DaveH
LEOs want to go home to their families? Great, so do the rest of us. Jeffery Snyder found that LEOs mistakenly kill innocent citizens about 330 times per year. By contrast, civilians mistakenly kill about 30 innocents/year. Who do you think we should trust more with a firearm? I'll keep my firearm, thank you, for my safety.
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them"
- George Mason, American Statesman (1725-92)
September 11th, 2010 10:22 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^I'm kinda in this camp on this one^^^^^^^^^
Originally Posted by Tala
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn
September 11th, 2010 10:47 PM
I believe that the greatest value of these threads to unsworn individuals who choose to carry is to illustrate the two outer areas of of each extreme, of the behavior likely to be experienced in an encounter with LE.
The lesson, is hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.
September 11th, 2010 11:32 PM
Jeffery Snyder found that LEOs mistakenly kill innocent citizens about 330 times per year. By contrast, civilians mistakenly kill about 30 innocents/year. Who do you think we should trust more with a firearm? I'll keep my firearm, thank you, for my safety.[/QUOTE]
According to the CDC, in 2007 there were 613 accidental gun deaths. To put this into perspective, there were 820 accidental bicycle deaths and over 5,000 accidental pedestrian deaths that same year. It's more than 30, but still a relatively low number in the grand scheme of things.
I appreciate the difficulty of the LEOs jobs. There's no such thing as a routine traffic stop when you approach a vehicle with no idea who is on the other side or what kind of person they are. I believe in most cases if you handle yourself properly you give then no cause for alarm. If they feel the need for whatever reason to disarm me, I'm not going to get upset about it. You never know what experiences they've had that have shaped their perspective. They're human too. They have bad days and get frustrated and aggravated just like everyone else. There may be some tools out there, but fortunately I've never met one. My perspective is they have a job to do and if I happen to be on their to-do list for that day, then I want to make it easy for them to do their job. If I've got a ticket coming, so be it. My experience, if you're cool and don't try to blow smoke and just be straight up, they'll be cool with you and might even cut you a break. If you get a driving award that wasn't warranted, get a lawyer and go to court and let the judge decide.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.
September 12th, 2010 12:27 AM
I have worked in the system, and I had a problem with one out here who told myself and his partner, he would "shoot ANYONE he saw with a gun"... he was very very avid about it. We questioned him and he kept stressing "anyone", even if they had not drawn the gun, were not threatening anyone with it, etc. I reminded him I could open carry on my property and jokingly said, so don't shoot me if I had my gun on , and he even said then.... if I saw you, I would shoot you.
His partner reported this to the Chief, and he's no longer an officer on our police dept.
I've dealt with folks in all types of agencies, depts, etc. .... and I do have issue with those in the system blanketly defending all LEO's as if no-one can be a bad apple in the barrel. There's some of them in every dept. and agency. Acting like there isn't, is seen as "protecting" someone no matter what, and justifying bad behavior to save the image of the dept, when it instead causes people to distrust the dept even more. A dept. that shows it will flush out a bad LEO and get rid of them, gains a lot more public support and respect.
Some complaints are legit, and not bashing. I guess the New Orleans Dept jumps to the top of my mind when thinking about this. No one trusts the Dept because of supposed "cover-ups" ... including the shooting of unarmed civilians during Katrina that they have been on trial for.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
September 12th, 2010 12:33 AM
Terry while frequently referred to is not the only relevant case. Many folks refer to Terry as that is the one that initially set a standard. And you are right in Terry there had been no offense commited when the officer initiated contact. In a traffic stop an officer has witnessed someone violating a traffic law. Apples and oranges.
Originally Posted by TBob
As far as what officers can do as far as a search on a traffic stop what might be a better case is Pennsylvania v Mimms in which SCOTUS affirms the officers right to order someone out of the vehicle. Or Michigan v Long regarding the search of the passenger area of the vehicle and the admissibility of contraband discovered during the search for weapons.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
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