This is a discussion on What is it with all the LEO threads? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by cammo girl I like to hear what is on people's minds whatever it is. I did chuckle at your crapper comparison - ...
The threads are useful. They allow us to say "Well, if thata happened to me Ida told the cop.......," while in reality these threads allow us to run various scenarios through our heads and have better responses in mind in case it happens to us. I feel I'm better prepared to avoiud a confrontation after reading the threads.
I don't read threads about LEO encounters with the exception of this one.
Why is it a big deal? If your state requires you notify just say, "Officer I'm required by state law to notify you that I am carrying a firearm". Of if your state doesn't require notification say nothing about it.
As I see it people who post these encounters must have an unusual interest in anything relating to law enforcement. Perhaps they should look into becoming LEO's themselves. I myself have never been an LEO but have always had a healthy respect for what they do. As I've gotten older my respect and appreciation has only grown.
Couple days ago I was sitting in a Subway having lunch. I noticed a county sheriff deputy walk across the parking lot and enter the store. As he walked across the lot I noticed he had a limp. A few seconds later he walked back to his car and left. Again I noticed the limp. I realized he had left because of the very long line to place an order. It gave me a terrible feeling.
This gentleman had probably been injured during military service or in the course of performing his duties as a police officer. It left him with a pronounced limp but he was still in uniform performing a vital service to the general public. He obviously didn't have time to wait in the long line to buy his lunch. He was as hungry as the rest of us but just didn't have the time. I wanted to run out into the parking lot and escort him to the front of the line but most officers are a modest bunch and he wouldn't have allowed it even if everyone in front of him had insisted.
The bottom line is we owe our cops and our military personnel everything. That thing about laying your life on the line every time you got to work is no joke.
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I appreciate the support of those in here who respect us in the Law Enforcement business and I take no offense in anyone talking about their encounters as long as you do not have a problem with me telling you to put yourself in our shoes. As for the ones who made claims in here that we routinely disarm people on traffic stops that is bogus atleast in my typical encounter with any armed if the initial stop was related to a traffic offense minus any other circumstance. If you act like a tool, for my safety I will disarm you before I conduct my business and that is so I can make it safer for me to go home to my family. If I pull you over and other circumstances dictate I hold your weapon so you do not have control of it for our encounter I can and will do that, but like I said that is usually very rare for say regular speeding enforcement. Absolutely us in Law Enforcement should not get a free pass to just expect people to put up with unfair treatment as we are lets face it "The Government Authority" and i take that into account when I hinder a citizens free movement. Bottom line, treat me with respect as I would you if you stopped me and you may not have your feeling hurt or worse. It's that simple and not unreasonable.
If you can read this thank a teacher. If it is written in English thank a Marine.
Anyway--I'm tracking with you....You'd think over the years DC.com (and it's predecessor CombatCarry.com) has been around, most of these questions would have been answered...
is a great function....answers most of the questions regarding guns and: kids, dogs, schools, churches, people who hate guns, family members who hate guns, midgets who hate guns, family who likes guns, "scaring sheep", "Went to ORANGE! Someone looked at me sideways in the grocery store....but I got her license plate number from her handicapped parking spot, how did I do?"....and the like.
handgunlaw.us answers 90% of the "Hey, in <insert state> can I (carry in my speedo, carry it in a black bag? Green bag?, duct taped to my head?)"; "what if someone looks at me while I'm OCing/CCing/thinking about OCing?
Magazine <> clip - know the difference
martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
I was just saying that, here, a routine traffic stop is a "Terry Stop", in the eyes of the law. Therefore, the officer has (and IMHO should have) the authority to do a Terry pat down and disarm you, at his/her option -- for the officer's safety.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
Do you have any idea how many unfounded compalints are filed against officers?
Example: A friend of mine was driving the SWAT armored truck back to the barn after it was serviced. He and another officer stopped at KFC and grabbed lunch to go. A citizen called in and identified the officer by name, gave the location and time they bought lunch and their route back to the shed. They complained that while in traffic the officers were throwing chicken bones out the windows and one struck their car. When they complained to the officers at a traffic light the officers cussed them out and threw their sodas out the window at them.
The location of the officers was easily verified as being where these people said they were. The caller was refered to OIA and a copy of their call to E.C.C. was made for the investigator.
Only problem is that the windows of that truck dont open.....
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LEOs want to go home to their families? Great, so do the rest of us. Jeffery Snyder found that LEOs mistakenly kill innocent citizens about 330 times per year. By contrast, civilians mistakenly kill about 30 innocents/year. Who do you think we should trust more with a firearm? I'll keep my firearm, thank you, for my safety.
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them"
- George Mason, American Statesman (1725-92)
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
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I believe that the greatest value of these threads to unsworn individuals who choose to carry is to illustrate the two outer areas of of each extreme, of the behavior likely to be experienced in an encounter with LE.
The lesson, is hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.
Jeffery Snyder found that LEOs mistakenly kill innocent citizens about 330 times per year. By contrast, civilians mistakenly kill about 30 innocents/year. Who do you think we should trust more with a firearm? I'll keep my firearm, thank you, for my safety.[/QUOTE]
According to the CDC, in 2007 there were 613 accidental gun deaths. To put this into perspective, there were 820 accidental bicycle deaths and over 5,000 accidental pedestrian deaths that same year. It's more than 30, but still a relatively low number in the grand scheme of things.
I appreciate the difficulty of the LEOs jobs. There's no such thing as a routine traffic stop when you approach a vehicle with no idea who is on the other side or what kind of person they are. I believe in most cases if you handle yourself properly you give then no cause for alarm. If they feel the need for whatever reason to disarm me, I'm not going to get upset about it. You never know what experiences they've had that have shaped their perspective. They're human too. They have bad days and get frustrated and aggravated just like everyone else. There may be some tools out there, but fortunately I've never met one. My perspective is they have a job to do and if I happen to be on their to-do list for that day, then I want to make it easy for them to do their job. If I've got a ticket coming, so be it. My experience, if you're cool and don't try to blow smoke and just be straight up, they'll be cool with you and might even cut you a break. If you get a driving award that wasn't warranted, get a lawyer and go to court and let the judge decide.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
I have worked in the system, and I had a problem with one out here who told myself and his partner, he would "shoot ANYONE he saw with a gun"... he was very very avid about it. We questioned him and he kept stressing "anyone", even if they had not drawn the gun, were not threatening anyone with it, etc. I reminded him I could open carry on my property and jokingly said, so don't shoot me if I had my gun on , and he even said then.... if I saw you, I would shoot you.
His partner reported this to the Chief, and he's no longer an officer on our police dept.
I've dealt with folks in all types of agencies, depts, etc. .... and I do have issue with those in the system blanketly defending all LEO's as if no-one can be a bad apple in the barrel. There's some of them in every dept. and agency. Acting like there isn't, is seen as "protecting" someone no matter what, and justifying bad behavior to save the image of the dept, when it instead causes people to distrust the dept even more. A dept. that shows it will flush out a bad LEO and get rid of them, gains a lot more public support and respect.
Some complaints are legit, and not bashing. I guess the New Orleans Dept jumps to the top of my mind when thinking about this. No one trusts the Dept because of supposed "cover-ups" ... including the shooting of unarmed civilians during Katrina that they have been on trial for.
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Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
As far as what officers can do as far as a search on a traffic stop what might be a better case is Pennsylvania v Mimms in which SCOTUS affirms the officers right to order someone out of the vehicle. Or Michigan v Long regarding the search of the passenger area of the vehicle and the admissibility of contraband discovered during the search for weapons.
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