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Explaining to a legal immigrant

2K views 24 replies 23 participants last post by  drew59 
#1 ·
At work, a person from Vietnam was recently hired. The subject of firearm carry got brought up somehow in the conversation. He asked "Why would a person want to be armed, the viet cong ruined my country, and I floated out to a patrol boat in hostile waters. Armed people cause wars."

My response was, "Well, to answer your question, for protection of the home and family. Also protection of my own life. If I'm peaceably watching TV, and I hear a ram at my door and armed crack heads come barging in, at least I will have a fighting chance to defend my family. If I'm walking along at work and i come across a vicious dog that is intent on attack, I will be able to defend my life." Then we spent a hour and 15 min talking about various situations, and why it is a good idea to be armed all of the time.

Anyhow, this isn't confronting anti-gunners, but people who have recently moved to the USA, and are still getting used to the idea that I could buy or sell any firearm I want without FFL involvement in any part of the transaction, (and the fact that non-government employees can be armed).

How would you approach the situation?

P.S.: He's still trying to adjust to the idea that we can criticize our political leaders without fear of imprisonment/torture. He left the site looking honestly afraid when I started on a tirade about the current democratic government because I was vocalizing my opinion about current events. When I asked him what he thought, he didn't say a word and borderline ran to get away from the heated political discussion.
 
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#2 ·
Coming from a different culture, he probably has quite a bit of adjusting to do to absorb the 'rights' we here in the USA can enjoy.
That's going to take a while, but I'd keep sharing with him.:hand10:
 
#3 ·
He asked "Why would a person want to be armed, the viet cong ruined my country, and I floated out to a patrol boat in hostile waters. Armed people cause wars."
Unarmed people weren't capable of withstanding the crimes perpetrated against them. Without being able to survive until help arrives, a person has no real security against violence.


Then we spent a hour and 15 min talking about various situations, and why it is a good idea to be armed all of the time.
Each situation is so very different, but it comes down to being able to survive encounters until help can arrive. Against people who are likely armed, and certainly against multiple people, it can be very difficult (or near impossible) for the average person to survive a violent encounter. Being armed and reasonably trained to some level of competency helps to level the odds a bit. It's certainly no guarantee, but it's far better than being tossed into a swamp with gators without anything more than Speedo's and ear plugs.


Anyhow, this isn't confronting anti-gunners, but people who have recently moved to the USA, and are still getting used to the idea that I could buy or sell any firearm I want without FFL involvement in any part of the transaction, (and the fact that non-government employees can be armed).

How would you approach the situation?
That's a tough one. I've had many long and interesting discussions with some fairly knowledgeable friends and acquaintances about the subject. Basically, it comes to this: This is a nation formed by a collection of free citizens in free states, in which that freedom is the single most valuable asset each citizen has. It starts with one's sacred right to life and its basic pursuits, which includes protection of it against all threats. Can't be doing that only when the "king" or temporarily elected putzes authorizes a person to lift a finger in his/her own defense.

P.S.: He's still trying to adjust to the idea that we can criticize our political leaders without fear of imprisonment/torture.
The difference between being a free citizen and a subject is stark. They are at polar opposites from one another. I don't doubt it was hard to help him understand the differences.


He left the site looking honestly afraid when I started on a tirade about the current democratic government because I was vocalizing my opinion about current events. When I asked him what he thought, he didn't say a word and borderline ran to get away from the heated political discussion.
"Tirades" from people armed with firearms can be intimidating, for what they imply might be true. Caution, as he might now think poorly of you and the sort of person who would go armed. Unknown just how bad his previous experiences have been with armed people, but it's entirely likely those experiences showed him just how far armed people are willing to go, just how badly some can act, just what violence is possible when a person has every capability to enforce his/her threats upon others.

Do you know for certain that he can distinguish between your spirited political views and your actual feelings about what you would or would not do to "enforce" those ideas? Seems to me he's seeing in you many of the same things he fears from "armed people" in general.

Remember: he's a colleague at your place of work who now has some very eyes-wide-open feelings (and knowledge) about a person he knows is armed in this life, and he doesn't seem to yet have a solid understanding about the wisdom and reasonableness of that. Uncertain what risk there might be in his passing along his fears ... but it's a tough economy right now, in which it can be tough to find work. Something to think about, if that might be a risk for you, given how he left the conversation, particularly since he didn't seem to completely "get" your perspective on things.
 
#6 ·
Use your imagination... Here's a guy from a historically opressed society. He sees you ranting about your government, he knows you carry guns. He knows, from past experience that this is a bad mix... It isn't a bad mix here, but boy, it sure was bad back then and there.

With no knowledge of our history, how our government works, our rights, or much else but that the money sure is good in the U.S.... He's probably terrified on some level...

Imagine his conversation with his family or friends at home after work:

"A wacko (you) at my job is saying bad things against the government, and he and some of his friends have guns... I think he is like the Viet Kong... he is maybe going to wage war against the government with his guns..."

He is probably deathly afraid of the police, and probably his boss, and maybe his co-workers... (are they party men? (Spies for the government)).

You know, you could probably take him a copy of the constitution... And he'd think it was some sort of manifesto... He might not even understand that it IS the law of the land. And, BTW, since he is not a citizen, those rights do not pertain to him... So he has some reason to be concerned if he gets into the "wrong crowd" they could deport him! (you and I know they wouldn't, but he is afraid they will, and he thinks that "eyes" are on him all the time.)

He is, most likely, a resident alien... He does not have to know our history, laws, or much else... all he has to do is make money on his own and pay taxes.

He "trusts" the regime (the government)... It may be corrupt for all he knows, but it can deny him his gravy train any time it wants to...

If you want to help him understand, you best go about it slowly and gently... not by "ranting against the machine." See if there are some Community College courses for resident aliens about our country in you area.

This might be ideal for him... Community college = Government approved education (probably at little or no cost)... failing that, call the college and see if there are any Vietnamese students that speak Tieng Viet, and would be willing to talk to him...

Some of the nationalities that come to work and live in the U.S. stick to little communites of thier own, like Chinatown and Little Italy and so on, so they bring their own culture with them, and stay in it. It feels "safe" to them. They do not know what they are missing... but they are getting that paycheck.
 
#7 ·
Try to understand the culture he is from. Your conversation may have been a bit overwhelming to him. In certain parts of the world those who criticize their government suddenly disappear along with those around them. Take it slow and easy. When I was in high school back in the mid to late 1970s there was a guy from Viet Nam (the Viet Namese boatlift). Most could not pronounce his name so they asked if they could call him KP for his initials. He understood and agreed. I was seemd to be the only one in class who was able to pronounce his name and we became friends. His first name was Kwai. Wish we hadn't lost track after high school. My cousin was a helicopter mechanic in the Army during Viet Nam and had slides of the country. Kwai was a little surprised that he met someone who knew a little more about Viet Nam than what was shown on TV. Again take it slow and easy, let him absord our culture at his speed.
 
#22 ·
A very good idea, make him a project but take it slowly, start him on plinking a .22cal, few people can resist that, then as he warms up to the idea of shooting invite to a gunshow. Take him to a local Museum and start teaching him some of the history about how the US was formed.
 
#10 ·
I don't think there is much (if any) migration from Viet Nam to the US nowadays, and there hasn't been since the "boat people" era immediately following the collapse of the South Vietnamese Government. So, this man the OP works with has likely lived in the US for 30 years or so. That's plenty of time for him to have gained plenty of understanding of our ways and our culture---if he were interested and or capable of learning. That is also plenty of time for him to have acquired US Citizenship, the process for which requires acquisition of knowledge of our country.

Perhaps he is a new arrival, or perhaps he is someone who simply was never able to adjust. However, peak post war migration to the US occurred in 1992 following changes in our law and Vietnamese law. I'd think someone living here 19 years has had plenty of time to adjust.

Now, there is a flip side to the OP's argument. Guns in the hands of ordinary Vietnamese enabled their revolution against the South Vietnamese government. Whether we like it or not, or want to admit it or not, without the willing participation of a large segment of the South Vietnamese population the North could not have succeeded. Looked at from this point of view the OP could argue that guns in the hands of the people does what many 2a proponents advocate--provide an avenue for holding government responsible. His guy of course was on the losing side of history. It cuts both ways.
 
#11 ·
About 685,000 Vietnamese have gained lawful permanent residence in the United States since 1990.

Of the 1.1 million Vietnamese foreign born in the United States in 2006, 14.1 percent entered the country in 2000 or later, with 37.0 percent entering between 1990 and 1999, 30.1 percent between 1980 and 1989, 18.0 percent between 1970 and 1979, and the remaining 0.8 percent prior to 1970.

Source
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the information. That's an astounding number, approximately 140,000 since 2000. I wonder how many migrated here directly from VN and now many migrated here from some intermediate place where they may have found a more temporary post war asylum.

Thanks for good info. Appreciate it.
 
#12 ·
well if u can tell him if the south Vietnamese army didnt have guns, then everybody would have been slaughtered along time ago, but those guns gave the south a fighting chance. and when we walk the streets in America, and we get in to small scale wars with people trying to take way from us, we also have a fighting chance.
 
#13 ·
Interesting post. A friend of my family was a Vietnamese national who was drafted into the war before escaping to the US a few decades back. He is now a legal citizen and probably the most patriotic, freedom loving American that I know. I recently took him shooting and he is becoming one of us :35:

He expressed similar fears to me about his first year or two in the US. Sometimes it takes seeing the other side to truly appreciate what you have; I know he does.
 
#17 ·
You could explain to him that when the USA was still a group of colonies ruled by England, the home country began to abuse the colonies with onerous taxation and other restrictions. The only option the colonists had was to resist with arms. That was because the colonists had guns to fight the British army. In fact, the first shots of the Revolutionary War were the day that the British tried to destroy the arms stored in Concord, MA. Had Brit. Gen. Sage succeeded, the colonists would have had little defense against the British.

Then suggest that he apply that lesson to Viet Nam.
 
#18 ·
I was born in Vietnam (1976) and came to the U.S. when I was 2. Obviously, I don't remember any of the experience, but I can tell you that the Viet Cong came and took all of my father's property, business and bank assets. There wasn't much he could do about it since they were armed and he was not. My family was able to escape only because my father had enough money to gain passage on a boat to escape the country. My mother was actually 8 months pregnant with my brother when they decided to escape. The only way they were able to escape (since the Viet Cong monitored the comings and goings of all the citizens) was to claim they were going to the hospital to deliver the baby. My parents left everything they had except the clothing on their backs in order to leave. We sat on a small, cramped boat for over a month before reaching a refugee camp in Malaysia.

My brother was born in Malaysia and we spent almost a year there with nowhere to go. My mother had to trade her engagement ring and all of her jewelry for coal to light fires and food. The refugee camp provided one bowl of rice per day... which was split between my mother, father and I. I had other family that also escaped to the same refugee camp. Australia accepted my uncle because he spoke English. Sweden accepted an Aunt because she was a doctor. The U.S. basically took all of the other refugees. Basically everyone else the other countries did not see any potential or gain from. We were sponsored by a church and came over after a year.

Sorry for the long story, but I just wanted to give another side to the story. I am proud to be an American and find it amazing that this country is truly a melting pot. I exercise my 2nd Amendment right, as do other members of my family. My parents worked very hard to raise us and I am fiercely loyal to my family and country. My parents sacrificed almost everything to get to the U.S. Why wouldn't I want to enjoy all the freedom this country offers?
 
#19 ·
P.S.: He's still trying to adjust to the idea that we can criticize our political leaders without fear of imprisonment/torture. He left the site looking honestly afraid when I started on a tirade about the current democratic government because I was vocalizing my opinion about current events. When I asked him what he thought, he didn't say a word and borderline ran to get away from the heated political discussion.
You have to understand that in many places in the world speaking out politically can get one in a heap of trouble very quickly. I personally know a fellow who had to flee East Germany because his own brother turned him in to the STASI. My wife's grandfather was imprisoned during the cultural revolution just for being a doctor. Any number of other immigrants who lived through such societies that I've spoken to take an understandable "low-profile" approach to life. Especially for an immigrant with no place to return to not sticking out is very important.

For most Americans who've never seen a war on their own soil this may be very hard to understand.


That being said, leave the political rants aside and take your friend to the shooting range. I've found most immigrants/foreign visitors I've done that with get a huge kick out of it.
 
#23 ·
Good Day everyone. I to am an immigrant to this great and wonderful country! I moved here from Scotland United Kingdom, the land of the Queen and No Guns, which is strange because armed crime is sky high! It really is awesome to have gun rights, and the god given and protected right to bear arms and to be able to protect yourself and your family, I have my CWP and read everthing that I can about Concealed carry. the thing that hits me the most coming from the UK is stores like Wamart Guns and Groceries! My favorite store, everytime I go there no matter what for I always end up with Ammo!!! just for the fact that I can legally buy it.
 
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