I Felt Insulted.

This is a discussion on I Felt Insulted. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This past weekend was a fun one. I participated in the Florida State IDPA Match (Low Light – Lights Out) and the gods of raffle ...

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Thread: I Felt Insulted.

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Angry I Felt Insulted.

    This past weekend was a fun one. I participated in the Florida State IDPA Match (Low Light – Lights Out) and the gods of raffle actually favored me with a FNP-9! When I got back home Sunday, I sat down to read the manual and see how the gun assembles, disassembles and operates. When I pulled out the manual from the case this little manila envelope falls out. It has a label in which specifies the manufacturer, type and caliber of weapon, grooves and twist, somebody’s name, serial number, etc. There was something inside the envelope so I opened it and found a fired shell. After a second of thought, it hits me: Ballistic Fingerprinting! The Maryland BS! I got mad.

    Even though I live in Florida and ballistic fingerprinting does not affect me, I got mad. I got mad at the enormous waste of time and money on this nonsense and I got mad that somehow the State of Maryland thinks of me as a criminal.

    I almost threw the envelope away but I changed my mind. I am keeping as a reminder of the stupidity of the politicos on enacting feel-good legislation that creates more problems instead of solving the ones at hand.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    I believe that it is pretty common anymore. One shell casing goes with the gun and the other one (yes, there are two) goes into a file somewhere else. :)

    My most recent S&W was done the same way.
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Miggy,

    Iagree, and wonder when some politician will get the idea to tread pattern all of our vehicles tires. maybe even have the mfg start casting serial numbers into the tread and keeping record of who they were sold to.

    My question with Ballistic fingerprinting is, how accurate is it after a thousand rounds or so, or even better, after a nice aftermarket barrel. That sounds about as useful as "buying back" all the useless junk guns everyone has lying around.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  5. #4
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    It is common practice and has been for a while - just the manufacturers having to bend to appease the law makers and play safe too.

    Ballistic finger printing is a highly costly near joke - its only purpose really being another mechanism to further frustrate the legal gun owner. Anyone with common sense can see how futile it really is.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Member Array jhfox462's Avatar
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    I didnt realize what that shell was when I bought my walther p22. I just thought it showed that the gun fired...Huh. Now that I know I am not so happy.
    Benjamin Franklin once said, "he that would supplant a little liberty for a little safety deserves neither".

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    Miggy.......

    The sad thing is the fingerprinting really doesn't work anyhow.

    Although it never got out of committee, last year Maryland tried to kill the BF requirement. I can't remember the figure of the total amount of money spent to create and maintain the system, but it's in the multi-millions. As of last year the State had gotten something like TWO convictions.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    An increment of burden

    I would interpret "ballistic fingerprinting" as yet another small burden placed by liberal lawmakers on the firearms industry and gun owners. It is politically impossible to ban guns in the US, which frustrates liberals. So they employ the strategy of adding many small burdens to the industry and the customers, hoping that gradually they can achieve their goal of banning guns.

    The horse is a strong animal, but if you keep adding 5 pound weights to his back, he will eventually collapse and not be able to get up.

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    Member Array NevJohn's Avatar
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    Actually they do put serial numbers on tires... just take a look sometime. Those arent casting numbers, but each tire has been numbered, due to recalls, and lawsuits. This I learned from a tire dealer.
    John
    XD40 Service
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4my son
    My question with Ballistic fingerprinting is, how accurate is it after a thousand rounds or so, or even better, after a nice aftermarket barrel. That sounds about as useful as "buying back" all the useless junk guns everyone has lying around.
    This is an excerpt from a Miami Herald article dated March 6, 2002

    As for ammunition, Miami police had tried to fix the identification problem several times in the past decade.

    Miami police officers used department-issued Smith & Wesson revolvers until the late 1980s. At that time, the department switched to Glocks - first the 9mm, then the .40-caliber model - because the weapons had greater firepower to match an increasingly well-armed criminal population.

    But in the early 1990s, there were several police shootings in which multiple officers were involved. The department suddenly realized it was having problems identifying which bullets were fired by which officers, Rojas said.

    The department contacted Glock, which developed what later became known as the ``Miami barrel.'' These barrels marked a ``signature'' groove onto the bullet's casing when it was fired.

    But several problems subsequently arose, Rojas said. The Winchester Ranger SXT bullets' copper jacket, the part of the slug that bore the signature mark, often ripped off the bullet's lead core on impact. That made identification impossible.

    After years of firing, first on the practice range, then in active duty, the barrel on the Glock .40-caliber often wore down and lost its ability to imprint the bullet with the signature grooves, Rojas said.

    ``It just wasn't working for us anymore,'' he said.

    Representatives of the Glock company could not be reached Tuesday night for comment.

    The police department has been huddling with Glock officials since September to come up with a barrel that does not lose its ability to mark a bullet, Rojas said. And the department is also looking at switching to Speer Gold Dot bullets, whose copper jacket is electronically fused to its lead core so it will not rip apart upon impact.

    Technicians are still testing the new barrel at the Miami-Dade police lab. In the meantime, the Miami Police Department has already started handing out the new bullets.

    Community leaders praised the department's move.

    ``Coming in conjunction with the agreement to modify the use of deadly force, I think it's a great idea, because it creates accountability,'' said Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, president of the Greater Miami Chapter ACLU
    We are talking barrels specifically designed to leave an identifying imprint and it could not be achieved!
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    I noticed too

    I noticed early on that some dealers were selling firearms that had stickers on them that specificly said that they WERE NOT part of the nonmerryland balistic fingerprinting and that no such shells were included. This is the reason that the last two new firearms i purchased were those with that sticker! I know the system doesn't work, but I purchased outside of it just out of sheer spite!

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    Member Array maqueswell's Avatar
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    Post

    Miggy, Is there anywhere on the envelope that states that it was ballistic fingerprinting? I live in Texas, and when i purchase a firearm, the spent shells meant that the gun was test fired, it includes that information along with the testers name or employee number, and depending on manufacturer the paper target is included also. (ie Sig, Magnum research .45 baby eagle)
    Desert Eagle .44 Magnum, Baby Eagle .45
    Glock 22
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    Mossberg 590 special purpose
    Weatherby Vanguard .308
    Bushmaster M-4

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    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    A couple of the guns that I bought had the fired shells and others did not. But I did notice on one, the Tauras .38, which has "Not for sale in CA, MD, D.C., Chicago.." and I think a few others.

    Wayne

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    Senior Member Array tegemu's Avatar
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    I think that, rather than Ballistic Fingerprinting, what you have is a courteous service to the gun purchaser, As was stated it is probably a test fired round, to prove that the gun was test fired. I have received several guns with a test fired round and none of them had anything to do with Maryland.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell

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    Senior Member Array jhh3rd's Avatar
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    Just a thought

    Keep this paraphenalia and any old crime bill mandated 10 round magazines. Use them as tools to educate new voters and as a reminder to vote. Look at them every day at least before your state's deadline to register for the 2006 elections.

    They are valuable reminders of 10 years of stupidity that could be visited on us again. Lots of new shooters need to hear about this sordid piece of legislation forced on us by the slimmest majority.

    Yes, I am a single issue voter.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maqueswell
    Miggy, Is there anywhere on the envelope that states that it was ballistic fingerprinting? I live in Texas, and when i purchase a firearm, the spent shells meant that the gun was test fired, it includes that information along with the testers name or employee number, and depending on manufacturer the paper target is included also. (ie Sig, Magnum research .45 baby eagle)
    You don't quite get it.

    If you buy a new gun and it comes with a fired case - the MFG also
    retains a case and record of the serial #.

    IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOUR STATE GETS A CASING.
    IF THAT GUN IS CONFISCATED AS EVIDENCE THE LEO AGENCY
    WILL SIMPLY GET THE INFO FROM THE MFG.
    -------
    -SIG , it's What's for Dinner-

    know your rights!
    http://www.handgunlaw.us

    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
    {Bernhard Goetz}

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