Auditory Exclusion or Squib?

Auditory Exclusion or Squib?

This is a discussion on Auditory Exclusion or Squib? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently finished reading On Combat by LtCol Grossman and when discussing the physiological effects he covered auditory exclusion I began wondering how I would ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: Auditory Exclusion or Squib?

  1. #1
    JD [OP]
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,364

    Auditory Exclusion or Squib?

    I recently finished reading On Combat by LtCol Grossman and when discussing the physiological effects he covered auditory exclusion I began wondering how I would react if during an altercation my shots sounded like squibs. This was kind of odd as I've been aware of auditory exclusion for a while and recently had two squibs of my own but never really thought about the two in relation to each other.

    A couple pages later LtCol Grossman even described one instance where two officers ceased firing on a vehicle running a road block because their guns went pop instead of bang and they thought their guns were broke.

    So in the event that you had to fire you gun in a defensive situation and you heard a pop instead of a bang, would you fire again?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    I had auditory exclusion in one shooting that I had, inside a house. I did not fire again as befor I could the perp dropped to the floor from the "squib".

    ETA: It was in fact not a squib, but that was my instant impression until the individual fell to the floor from what was actually a full power load.
    Last edited by Guantes; October 9th, 2010 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Clarification

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    I haven't had a squib, but in cases where I have had a click-no-bang (incorrectly seated mag or dud), or a failure-to-feed/extract/eject that keeps the gun from going back into battery, I have felt that something was wrong. Once in an IDPA match the initial target was very close and I leaned forward so aggressively that I was near contact distance when I fired my first shot. The muzzle blast blew pasters everywhere and I saw a ton of holes in the paper; I hesitated momentarily, briefly afraid I had just, I dunno, blown up my gun and sent fragments of my barrel downrange. I decided after the brief hesitation that the gun had felt okay in recoil/reset, so I kept shooting.

    So, I guess my point is that if you have enough practice shooting, especially with a particular gun, you are more likely to react to sight and feel than to sound.

    My only conscious instances of auditory exclusion were force-on-force training, and was something of a side effect of target fixation. I saw and heard everything (I think) going on between me and the immediate threat, but completely missed a third party yelling something. I am not sure how that would affect my ability to hear target-focused input like gunfire.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    So in the event that you had to fire you gun in a defensive situation and you heard a pop instead of a bang, would you fire again?
    You know.....this is rather easy to do when at the range (recognize a FTF not only by sound, but felt recoil). In a self defense situation under duress, and according to the situation, I'd say my trigger finger might override my mind at the time. Granted....that could turn out to be good or bad depending. Our human senses are just as fragile if not more so than our physical bodies. Many times our senses indicate an immediate and automatic response. When several senses are involved in gathering information simultaneously, the process to reaction time may take longer. Any question as to the proper action or reaction required takes even longer if the senses send conflicting information. How is it I wasn't able to stop the hammer when I hit my thumb instead of the nail? I have excellent vision, yet I missed the mark. Once the hammer hit my thumb there was an instant reaction and an instant sensory perception that left no questions as to what had happened. I do know that the sound I should have heard (and expected) in striking the nail didn't happen. So....what let me down here? My sense of vision and perception, my sense of touch, or my hearing? If you've never had a black thumbnail......just imagine it.
    Since the book was highly suggested reading, I think I'll find a copy myself. That will make three I need to read, and two of them I already have!

  5. #5
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    16,223
    I want to think I would keep firing unless I noticed a jam or open / partial open slide. The gun could Kb, however if I don't stop the threat it may not matter either way.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  6. #6
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    15,129
    I fired 5 rounds into a charging pit-bull one time that fell at my feet,quivered and bled all over my boots. I was in the aw-heck mode when it happened and it happened so fast that it seemed like it was over before it ever got started. His mouth was popping like he was trying to chew on me even while he was dying. That was a bit unnerving.
    I was amazed at the speed in which the whole event took place. I was also amazed that my shots from a G21 sounded like mere pops instead of the loud ear ringing bangs that I was accustomed to.
    Another thing that I remember was listening to my heart beat, it was loud enough that I was able to determine that it was beating way too fast and that I needed to settle down and chill out.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cajun Country, Louisiana
    Posts
    760
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I recently finished reading On Combat by LtCol Grossman and when discussing the physiological effects he covered auditory exclusion I began wondering how I would react if during an altercation my shots sounded like squibs. This was kind of odd as I've been aware of auditory exclusion for a while and recently had two squibs of my own but never really thought about the two in relation to each other.

    A couple pages later LtCol Grossman even described one instance where two officers ceased firing on a vehicle running a road block because their guns went pop instead of bang and they thought their guns were broke.

    So in the event that you had to fire you gun in a defensive situation and you heard a pop instead of a bang, would you fire again?
    Yes. I've learned long ago not to trust my ears; mine are broken. I use my hands to feel the shots of my .32ACP Walther. I know what each shot should feel like.

    Although.... I don't know how dependable this would be in a self-defense situation. Hm...
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    DD3,
    Can you detect/sense the overpressure when you fire?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cajun Country, Louisiana
    Posts
    760
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    DD3,
    Can you detect/sense the overpressure when you fire?
    If by "overpressure" you mean the shock wave, yes, I can... very sensitively. If you mean by more power between regular loads and +P loads, I don't know yet. As for now, I only know my .32 that well.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    I meant the shock wave.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cajun Country, Louisiana
    Posts
    760
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I meant the shock wave.
    Yes. I'm extremely sensitive to ANY vibrations.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Hickory, NC
    Posts
    2,837
    I have yet to have a squib. Hopefully that does not change. With that thought, and the reliability of my firearm so far, I would likely keep firing. The fact that I train to shoot multiple shots quickly would probably mean I would keep going too.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    The problem with a true squib (stuck in barrel) is that the next round fired, if the action cycled, would probably destroy the gun and possibly your hand.

  14. #14
    Member Array cplguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pullman WA
    Posts
    36
    I have had a squib, but fortunatly it was just during a "plinking" session with a .22 rifle. I just heard "pop" and didn't hear the sonic crack, and looked up to see what wrong, and I literally watched the round sail down range because it was moving so slow. I looked at my father with a "W.T.H?" look on my face, and he had the same expression on his face. I dumped the magazine, cleared the chamber, re-inserted, and slowly squeezed off a round. It went off like normal, so we just attributed it to shooting 30 year old ammunition.
    Last edited by JD; October 10th, 2010 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Addressed via PM.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    I've had several squibs during my early reloading days,the thing about a squib is there usually is no recoil or very light recoil,and most squibs will not cycle the slide,I've had a few that had just enough powder that I could see the round smack the target and those cycled the action,but the barrel wasn't obstructed.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. I had a Squib load on a reload...help !!!
    By skystud1 in forum Reloading
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: November 11th, 2007, 07:49 PM
  2. Had My first Squib Last night
    By Rob99VMI04 in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: March 22nd, 2007, 10:46 PM
  3. Squib load trouble!
    By P95Carry in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: January 19th, 2006, 10:08 PM
  4. Your first shot is a squib!!!
    By P95Carry in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: August 27th, 2005, 11:18 AM
  5. Squib load
    By rocky in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: March 31st, 2005, 11:40 AM

Search tags for this page

.22 rifle squib
,
applied auditory exclusion
,

auditory exclusion

,
auditory exclusion combat
,
auditory exclusion definition
,
auditory exclusion during shooting
,
auditory exclusion on combat
,
auditory exclusion shooting
,
firearms auditory exclusion
,
how to avoid auditory exclusion
,
squib kb acronym
,
what is auditory exclusion
Click on a term to search for related topics.