Was wrongfully arrested - ball in my court

This is a discussion on Was wrongfully arrested - ball in my court within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You sir, are a much better man than I am... First thing that came to my mind was, "What can I get out of this ...

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Thread: Was wrongfully arrested - ball in my court

  1. #31
    Member Array distortion9's Avatar
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    You sir, are a much better man than I am...

    First thing that came to my mind was, "What can I get out of this mess?"

    I was thinking along the lines of a "get out of jail free" card, personally signed by the Chief. This card would also state that I can carry what ever I want, where ever I want, when ever I want.

    ....a guy can dream can't he?

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array torrejon224's Avatar
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    +1 on the training with Ayoob,, he's a pretty decent guy and is definitely pro CCW. Also, make this clown write a 5,000 word essay on 2nd Amendment rights especially why our forefathers thought the the right to keep and bear arms is so important and then require him to give a public presentation on it.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    RSZZ somewhat nailed it imho with
    Unfortunately he can be sooooo sorry,as can be his chief,but the lack of training ,to me,comes into play.
    Tho the officer is the seeming culprit in this to me at least it shows a department wide lack of training on several issues not just the weapons laws . Addressing the Officers screw up is all fine and well , and plenty of suggestions have been posted for that . My question is what is being done Dept. wide to get the line officers more training , its likely not even the chief's fault , tho the buck stops with him so to speak , rather its a lack of a training budget that needs to be addressed .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  5. #34
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    I am seeking some advice on formally educating a LEO officer after the following incident.
    As an LEO that has given training to my dept, it is my opinion(and its free) that the officer that arrested you thought he was doing the right thing, when in fact he was acting contrary to the law.

    The only way to insure that this is not repeated again, is to have a training session with the entire dept. The incident needs to be reviewed and the law that deals with this needs to be addressed to all. The facts need to be stressed and those attending need to be shown exactly WHY it was an unlawful arrest.

    This is the only way that it will not happen again.

    You cant imagine how many lies, rumours and misconceptions were beleived to be fact by those in my dept. when the CCW law first came into effect here. It was only after we held a training session with them that they came to understand the law and be able to enforce it correctly.

    I went over a detailed writeup of the CCW law as it was written and used various state statutes to back it up. Using a PowerPoint presentation as well as handouts to go along with it and answering any questions that came up will go a long way to make sure that everyone is up to speed on everything.

    Now heres the thing. Some depts can use what is know as a SME, a Subject Matter Expert to use in their training and get credit for it. Others must use a state certified LEO that is certified in that particular area, and some can use anyone at all. At the very least, if that dept. that you deal with has any issues with getting the proper accreditation then you can hold an "informational meeting" with them which is a whole lot better than nothing. Since it varies in state to state and even from dept. to dept. the best thing that you can do is to assist and volunteer to help.

    How you accomplish that really dosent matter as long as the word gets out...but thats the trick...you've got to get the word out and sometimes its not as easy as it sounds, with 3 different shifts working, people on vacation, sick leave or other training.

    The whole issue is about training...or in this particular case, lack of.

    It would benefit the whole dept and be cheaper in the long run...because the next guy that gets falsly arrested may not be so patient...

  6. #35
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    I explained what happened and after he heard his officer out, he assured me that I was in the correct in the law and that charges would be dropped, but the officer was refusing to let it go. This led to some legal issues. These issues are now resolved and I have had a long talk with the police chief and with my lawyer present we talked with the arresting officer (and his lawyer) and we came to a resolution. With the blessings of the police chief, I threatened a law suite, but would agree to not pursue the lawsuit IF the arresting officer went through some extensive training regarding the right to carry, 2nd amendment etc, as well as not having anything on his record for this false arrest.
    OK.You saw my last post on how to correct it.Now I have some personal thought on the matter.

    If my Sheriff called me on the carpet and explained to me that I was in the wrong, I would be an IDIOT to not drop the charges.

    Not only does he need to be eductated on the law, but he need remediation in communication and personal skills, which seems to be lacking. Also, a class in common sense couldnt hurt.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I saw this issue too hot, and imho at least one of them is an idiot , either the officer for not listening , the chief for not making him listen , or both ( i have my suspitions but due to this being a friendly forum wont elaborate lol ) . Anyway imho the answer isnt to train the officer its to train the dept . now how that happens ...... LOL

    Personaly i would suggest back to the drawing board , offer to drop the 20 hour requirement if the next training cycle ( within 90 days ) covers this issue for the entire dept . and attendance is manditory .

    This may well help the Chief in question also with the town/county/parish dads on training issues .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  8. #37
    Member Array kikr's Avatar
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    I think all the suggestions here were right on point, I do want to say though that this has been an extremely positive thread. Most people react to things like this with outrage and outragous statements of revenge, and only seek out to make some sort of monetary gain. Instead, everyone here has presented valid statements on the training and education of a LEO who hopefully made an honest mistake, out of good faith. Wrong is wrong but instead of seeking to punish everybody has seeked to educate. Awesome thread! and awesome group of folks in this forum. I'm impressed across the board. good luck.
    We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
    George Orwell

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, I guess that I will be more specific. The certificates to Frontsight that I was talking about for a four day hand gun course cost a whole $200. I would be willing to eat half of that price to bring this confused LEO around. For a whopping C note, this LEO could spend four days finding out what real armed Americans are really like.

    Educating them is the key, making them see that we are actually one of them....the good guys..... is what needs to be done.

    Whatever you decide to do, keep in mind that we want him to come out of this understanding who we really are. Good, honest, hard working Americans that will do what needs to be done to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

    Have a good Fourth of July everyone!

  10. #39
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    From what I gater you want to educate and gain a positive response then to punish.
    I would concentrate on quality of time then amount of time.
    Call around the shooting ranges in your area and look for a class on concealed carry that he can take, I am sure you will find a couple of experienced qualified instructors.
    Good luck in your choice.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Many great ideas

    I think both Hotguns and Redneck repairs hit it on the head. Although I wonder (I am not LEO so I don't know), do LEO's usually have an updated copy of the codes of the state they are working in while in their patrol vehicles? If so, would it be so hard for the departments to make it mandatory after a suspect is placed under control during a stop to VERIFY in the books if there is ANY question or doubt as to the specific codes the person is being arrested?

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Although I wonder (I am not LEO so I don't know), do LEO's usually have an updated copy of the codes of the state they are working in while in their patrol vehicles?
    In my day we did not . Some dept's may have now that laptops are common . You have to understand the codes the officer of a small dept. where the is not the luxury of working a " detail " rather the officer handles any call that comes inn, works with on a day to day basis fills a fair sized bookcase . There is a smaller Officers Handbook which most likely the Officer in question refered to for the statute nos of the charge(s) . The smaller book is just basicly a " cliffnotes" of the most commenly used statutes , containing the " elements of offense" and little else .

    Hope that answers your question .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    In my day we did not . Some dept's may have now that laptops are common . You have to understand the codes the officer of a small dept. where the is not the luxury of working a " detail " rather the officer handles any call that comes inn, works with on a day to day basis fills a fair sized bookcase . There is a smaller Officers Handbook which most likely the Officer in question refered to for the statute nos of the charge(s) . The smaller book is just basicly a " cliffnotes" of the most commenly used statutes , containing the " elements of offense" and little else .

    Hope that answers your question .
    I was just wondering...I thought maybe it might be a good idea, then again...that's a lot more to deal with and would probably make said stop infinitely more difficult and time consuming, not to mention the cost of constantly updating that material and distributing it to n # of officers.

  14. #43
    Member Array Jungle Work's Avatar
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    I would have obtained some of the city's long green. You get no where by being nice, the officer in question will now look for anything to punish CCWers. The legal gun carriers now have a real enemy in that burg.

    Jungle Work

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    I commend you on wanting to educate the LEO instead of making the man lose his career and ability to support his family. He clearing made a big mistake, and he should feel fortunate it was with you and not someone who is out for negative revenge. I also commend NH on their laws and constitution, that gives the freedoms to the people as the forefathers intended. I am not educated on NH law so please forgive me, but is everyone allowed to carry open without any classes or training? or do you have to register similar to a ccw license and then that entitles you to carry? I feel like the 2A should be held tight, but with unrestricted carry, that could mine not all how carry are in fact the Good Guys, like the ones on this forum. OR people might be carrying firearms there that are in fact dangerous and uneducated on proper carry, firing and training on the use of that firearm. And if I was an LEO, it would make me antsy, regardless if I was ignorant to the laws of the state.
    As for "punishement" I think registered time on this forum, and or a meeting with M. Ayoob would be great if you could swing it. I hope something good comes from your struggle and he actually thanks you in the end....(but he probably won't from what your thread stated.)
    ----DOC-----

    --people ask why I carry, and I show them this picture. I think it says it all.--

    NRA Certified Instructor--many disciplines

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Work
    I would have obtained some of the city's long green. You get no where by being nice, the officer in question will now look for anything to punish CCWers. The legal gun carriers now have a real enemy in that burg.

    Jungle Work
    Gotta disagree with you there, Jungle. It does depend upon the individual for sure, but most thinking people, after having time to cool off and reflect on the situation, would probably see someone in a better light that is only asking for retraining, rather than a person who goes forward with a lawsuit to get money. I, personally, think it reflects better on the CC community as a whole. It shows we actually care about the situation and are trying to make it better.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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