Was wrongfully arrested - ball in my court

This is a discussion on Was wrongfully arrested - ball in my court within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What I would like to know is, 1) How old is this officer 2) How long has he been on the job, 3) Did he ...

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Thread: Was wrongfully arrested - ball in my court

  1. #46
    Member Array glkdawg.45's Avatar
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    What I would like to know is, 1) How old is this officer 2) How long has he been on the job, 3) Did he have any military service ? I would like to know why/how he came to the conclusion that ordinary people should not be allowed to be "armed".

    1. He should study up on NH's state gun laws
    2. Having him take the same classes, as an ordinary(sp) citizen with ordinary citizens, is a great idea.
    3. Have him read the "ARMED CITIZEN" stories in the NRA magazines.
    4. Again, there is plenty of material to read on the subjects of "Concealed Carry", the 2nd Amed., having him write an essay is great. There are plenty of LE magazines out there to send it to, for printing.

    You should also let it be known that it is your responsability to "protect yourself and family", not his. He is not a bodyguard, he is there to "enforce the law".

    Please let us know how things go.
    USMC '86-'92
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  3. #47
    Member Array scout308's Avatar
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    1. Massad Ayoob/LFI Class
    2. Membership to USCCA (Lifetime)
    3. Go back to Police Academy, and teach about 2nd A., civilians, and concealed/open carry
    4. After completing the assigned 20 hours, submit a ten page essay on 2nd A. rights of all United States Citizens, and the importance of a legally armed society
    5. Make his entire family get CCW's
    I'll be your Huckleberry!! I have two guns! One for each of you!

    I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six!

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array '75scout's Avatar
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    Try to get accross how an armed society is a polite society. What happens when gun rights are revoked (Nazi Germany). That police are often called to apprehend a criminal after he/she has already committed a crime. That your personal saftey is primarily your responsibility and Law Enforcement second.

  5. #49
    Member Array Jungle Work's Avatar
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    I base my opinions on this quote by the starter of this thread,

    I tried to explain to the officer that open carry was legal in NH, and he was quiet sure that it wasn’t, and he was very rude in the process calling me “ignorant” on the law, along with the general sermon that one can expect on why guns are dangerous for those not in law enforcement to carry.

    That and 33 years of LE Experience.

    The officer is lucky you didn't file a 18USC Sec.242 complaint with the US Justice Department.

    I have come to believe that you get people's attention by taking away their money or their freedom or their life. Sad, but most folks don't respond to Reasoned Debate and it is difficult at best to change their mind to see your side of the debate.... "By God they know they are right and you and your stupid argument is not going to change their mind." I've seen it forever, whether in the Military or in LE.
    The more money and power they have, the more difficult it is to have them "repent".

    Jungle Work

  6. #50
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    I have come to believe that you get people's attention by taking away their money or their freedom or their life. Sad, but most folks don't respond to Reasoned Debate and it is difficult at best to change their mind to see your side of the debate.... "By God they know they are right and you and your stupid argument is not going to change their mind." I've seen it forever, whether in the Military or in LE.
    The more money and power they have, the more difficult it is to have them "repent".
    a rather unfortunate fact of life...

  7. #51
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    Array Miggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Work

    The officer is lucky you didn't file a 18USC Sec.242 complaint with the US Justice Department.
    18USC Sec.242: Deprivation of rights under color of law

    I had to look it up and share with the rest who went "Huh?" like myself.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  8. #52
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    DMan...

    Good for you guy! I'm happy to hear that you are trying to show some officers the light. It's amazing to see that those who are sworn to protect the people from harm and protect the rights of the citizen sometimes have little idea of what the law actually allows. I think you should absolutely push for the entire dept. to have some training in as far as the law regarding the rights of NH citizens to keep and bear arms.

    The circumstances which brought this about were very unfortunate, but I'm very pleased to see you doing the right thing and refraining from the knee-jerk lawsuit reaction. Kudos to you!

    I'd be very curious to hear from you, via PM, which town this had happened in. There was an instance in Salem, NH in the last 24 months or so, if I remember correctly, very similar to your situation. Open carry, sheeple called in a "Man with a GUN!!!", and a lot of difficulty with local PD that brought in the DA. PD training and reprimends for the responding officers were a result.
    Firefighter/EMT
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    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  9. #53
    Member Array 229DAK's Avatar
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    Have him take a class at the SigArms Academy with other pro-2A Joe's like the rest of us; one that satisfies the requirement to get a concealed carry permit.
    Last edited by 229DAK; July 7th, 2006 at 04:00 PM.
    Sig P220ST; P229DAK/.40; P229TT/9mm, P228 (CPO) & P239/9mm; S&W 617; Ruger MK-II/Pac-Lite; Stag AR15 Middie; M1 Garand & M1903A3; Armory SSR-85C-2/AK47; Yugo M59 SKS; NRA Life Member & Eagle Scout.

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  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    gddyup,

    There was an instance in Salem, NH in the last 24 months or so, if I remember correctly, very similar to your situation. Open carry, sheeple called in a "Man with a GUN!!!", and a lot of difficulty with local PD that brought in the DA. PD training and reprimends for the responding officers were a result.
    I seem to remember reading that this happened at a Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in Manchester. I could be wrong, but I think that I read about it here on cc.com a few years ago when it happened.

  11. #55
    New Member Array Broshear's Avatar
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    I'd ask the cop to read three articles on thw 'web:

    * The Racist Root of Gun Control
    * Nazi Gun Laws
    * The History of Gun Control in England

    All can be found via simple "google" searches.

    - - - Yoda

  12. #56
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Are you sure you didn't suffer any "mental anguish" or psychological trauma by being wrongfully arrested?



  13. #57
    New Member Array blackguns's Avatar
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    ideally this LEO should become educated on the gun laws and then spend the rest of his 20 hrs training the rest of the dept or all local depts in this issue.

    When you stand before your peers and have to answer questions about a subject you learn very quickly and very well.

    Unfortunately I agree that if this guy won't drop the charges after being confronted by his cheif he probably won't ever be a "convert" that being said he should know the laws, that is a core part of his job.

    This doesn't look good for the cheif or department as a whole.

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    I'm unfamiliar with NH carry laws so I can only speak on what I'd do here in Texas.

    First, I'd talk to my friend (and his boss) the Chief of Police. Explain that you don't want this to become a mark on the officer’s record, but that he needs to realize that he should be sure of his facts before he arrests someone. Being arrested is NOT a pleasant experience, whether you're later found guilty or innocent, not to mention the time, trouble and expense of the whole process. If there were any expense to you (like any legal fees from your lawyer or time lost from work) I'd also have him or the department pay them as part of my "no lawsuit" deal.

    As for the offending LEO, if there is a state requirement to attend a class before you can carry - like there is here in TX - I'd request he go to it. When he's finished, have the instructor sign a letter saying the LEO was actually there and have him return it to your lawyer. If there is no requirement, I'd ask the Chief to recommend an appropriate substitution, maybe a knowledheable local frearms training/carry instructor who's familiar with the law in NH concerning guns. I'd also make a request of the Chief of Police that his entire department be given training on NH carry laws to prevent this sort of "misunderstanding" in the future.

    As a side note, during a post (on another forum) about supporting LEO's and giving them the benefit of the doubt and a lot of discretion in doing their jobs, I was roundly chastised by many there - in particular several current and former LEO's - after I said that with great power comes great responsibility and because of this, "power" people (like LEO's) should be held to a higher standard of conduct than us common mortals. In particular, they have life altering power and discretion that the rest of us do not. This just goes to prove what I was talking about. What if the LEO in question had decided you posed a possible threat and had shot you? Who would argue with him if he said he felt threatened because you were brandishing a loaded weapon in public and failed to comply when asked to remove it and/or surrender it to him?

    Nothing personal against LEO's, I know many, but they do make mistakes (after all they are human, though I've seen a few who don't seem to think so). When they do, they should not be given a free pass just beacause of what they are or the job they do. They know the risks, they volunteer, and unlike the military, they can quit if they don't like the job or it gets too tough for them to handle.

    Just my 2 cents worth.
    Last edited by rachilders; July 7th, 2006 at 04:05 PM.
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  15. #59
    Member Array farmerj's Avatar
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    From the New Hampshire Police Standards & Training Council pg 12.
    http://www.pstc.nh.gov/
    FIREARMS & N. H. FISH & GAME LAWS
    COORDINATOR: CHIEF DONALD L. VITTUM CLASS SIZE: 16
    An overview of current State and Federal firearms laws, fish & game and OHRV laws, and their implications and ramifications in today’s community policing environment. Designed to increase the street-level officer’s understanding of these laws and how to use them to your creative advantage when dealing with recurring problems and community resources.
    I would say the officer KNEW what he was doing. Sounds like remedial training and the chief is putting his job in front of your friendship. The last thing he would want is this to be made public.

    AT THE LEAST -
    He needs to make amends. A public letter of apology and payment of all legal fees.

    20 hours of community service by teaching he fellow officers on the NH and Federal firearm laws is a bare minimum.

    I see a situation where the police have a chance to CYA and they are taking it. Starting with the chief down. His position after all IS politician first, LEO second. Just how most Chiefs come across to me. They answer to the elected city council first, the community second.

    MY reading of the course description.
    Designed to increase the street-level officer’s understanding of these laws and how to use them to your creative advantage when dealing with recurring problems and community resources.
    Sounds like he did what he was trained.

    I would ask to sit in on this class the next time it is taught. And make sure the instructor doesn't know why you are there.

    This is a symptom of the problem, not the problem.

  16. #60
    New Member Array MaverickNH's Avatar
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    http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/tlosd.htm

    Adrew Branca used to teach Firearms Law at SigArms Academy - maybe he could advise.

    http://www.massgunlaw.com/

    This group also addresses the issues in public courses.

    While both Mass oriented, perhaps they can work up a NH course or recommend someone who might.

    Mas Ayoob might have some options http://www.ayoob.com/

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