PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms.......

This is a discussion on PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms....... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Moga What difference does it make? He was conducting himself in a lawful manner regardless of which document he carried. There could ...

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Thread: PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms.......

  1. #16
    Member Array bionicskip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moga View Post
    What difference does it make? He was conducting himself in a lawful manner regardless of which document he carried. There could be a thousand reasons why he elected to have a FL CWP and not a PA LTCF but they aren't relevant because those states have reciprocity. I have a FL CWP as well as a GA GWL and licenses/permits from a few other states. Is something not right about that too? Further, as you've stated, the requirements for a CWP are more involved than for a LTCF, so it wouldn't appear that the victim elected one carry document over another because it was easier to obtain.

    The guy suffers harassment by the police but instead the focus of your post is on the states of issue of his carry licenses?
    As A GA resident, would GA honor your out of state licenses, if you did not have a current GA license? I don't think PA would have a problem with any non-resident license as long as you were not a resident of PA
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicskip View Post
    As A GA resident, would GA honor your out of state licenses, if you did not have a current GA license? I don't think PA would have a problem with any non-resident license as long as you were not a resident of PA
    If the law says that the State will honor the out of state permit them they should honor it. Do we really want to allow the state to ignore the laws that they don't agree with?

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  4. #18
    Member Array quikduk's Avatar
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    Something smells rotten in this story. I think there is a lot more that is being withheld and my BS meter is pegging pretty high at the moment.

    Why is this guy so "belligerent"? Permit or not and bus stop or not, if you are told to leave, you leave...period. You may not like it and there may be a power issue here with the LEOs but this guy is NOT an LEO. Maybe he "feels" like one or maybe even tries to "act" like one but he isn't. The excerpts posted from him (at least to me) indicate that he expresses and overt disrespect for the LEOs and maybe even some level of self-entitlement.

    JMHO though. This "attitude" just irks me a bit. Maybe I need more protein in my diet...

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    If this is a known drug dealing corner, then why aren't they doing something about it???

    Police, "Criminals sell a lot of drugs here."
    CCP holder, "Then why aren't you arresting them?"

    If he was taking pictures of people conducting illegal activity on the corner, then why would they want to erase the pics? That's his private property and the pictures are of public places. Not like he was taking pictures of a crime scene that would interfere with an investigation.

    I do also believe there are many elements to the entire history of the ordeal that are not reflected. This probably runs both wide and deep. Hard to tell exactly where the reality of the situation on both sides rests.
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  6. #20
    Member Array nsimps69's Avatar
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    +1 BugDude

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikduk View Post
    Something smells rotten in this story.
    Yes, you're right--the actions of the officers stink to high heaven.
    Quote Originally Posted by quikduk View Post
    Why is this guy so "belligerent"? Permit or not and bus stop or not, if you are told to leave, you leave...period. You may not like it and there may be a power issue here with the LEOs but this guy is NOT an LEO. Maybe he "feels" like one or maybe even tries to "act" like one but he isn't. The excerpts posted from him (at least to me) indicate that he expresses and overt disrespect for the LEOs and maybe even some level of self-entitlement.
    So, you believe that any order by any police officer must be obeyed, even if the order is unlawful? Police officers may not order you to move along without sufficient cause, and if one does do so without sufficient cause, you are under no legal obligation to comply. A number of years ago, the Supreme Court invalidated a Chicago anti-loitering ordinance (Chicago v. Morales). Among the problems with the ordinance were that it gave undue discretion to police officers which persons they would target, gave citizens no objective way to know if they were in compliance with or violation of the ordinance, gave citizens no way to know how far they had to move when told to disperse and for how long.

    I will admit we don't know a lot about the motives of John Solomon. I will also argue his motives don't matter one bit in terms of the legality of what the officers did. Where in the law or Constitution does it say you give up your rights because you were "being insolent and used poor judgment"? Assume he was trying to provoke a confrontation with the police, wanted to get his camera phone pics erased, etc. So what? Don't you think MLK, the Freedom Riders, and others in the civil rights movement wanted to get into confrontations with the police? Is a desire to provoke such a confrontation in order to point out an injustice a bad thing? Isn't it rather a good thing?
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicskip View Post
    As A GA resident, would GA honor your out of state licenses, if you did not have a current GA license? I don't think PA would have a problem with any non-resident license as long as you were not a resident of PA
    In Georgia, a citizen of this state may not carry a firearm, openly or concealed, without a Georgia Weapon License. However, in Pennsylvania, that doesn't appear to be their rule of law. With that said, the matter of the state of issuance of the license on which the citizen was lawfully carrying when he was confronted by Philly PD seems to be immaterial. The bottom line is that he wasn't breaking any laws at the time in question nor was he trespassing on private property. Wouldn't you agree?
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikduk View Post
    Permit or not and bus stop or not, if you are told to leave, you leave...period. You may not like it and there may be a power issue here with the LEOs but this guy is NOT an LEO.
    You are absolutely right, of course. He is not a LEO. That doesn't mean that he is automatically a subject (read: serf) to be ordered at the whims of every person that is, regardless of whether there is reasonable justification in doing so. I don't think he's acting like he's anything but a person waiting for a bus on a public bus stop that decided to take pictures with his phone. No harm no foul, let alone any legal transgressions in his actions. If he pushed back against official harassment by questioning authority well that doesn't make him belligerent in my mind. That makes him an informed American and an unwilling victim of police bullying, nothing more.
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  10. #24
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    So someone who is not breaking the law. Has been searched before with no drugs found is suspected of drug trafficking? WOW. What some people who aren't local may not know that the PD made over 100K stop and frisk contacts. ACLU is now filing a suit (not a ACLU fan by far, just saying). IMHO policing should be the observation of a crime and an action to stop it. Locking down an area and frisking the heck out of people just smacks too much like a police state to me.

    If you don't like the law change it. Until you change it enforce it. Giving people license without limits historically has not worked out. When YOU get stopped how would you want to be treated. Are you a citizen or a perp?
    Last edited by msb45; November 5th, 2010 at 11:27 PM. Reason: sp

  11. #25
    Member Array quikduk's Avatar
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    While I agree that both sides are not necessarily behaving like adults, I am in no way suggesting that the local Police have any more constitutional rights than the citizen in question (or anyone else for that matter). I know that there are thousands of documented cased of police with attitudes, bad officers, bad decisions by police etc but that doesn't mean that the person in question should be combative, even verbally. IMHO, one should use more restraint and respect especially if these officers seem like they are targeting him. I would feel better having some big legal guns on my side rather than trying to come up against some potentially "skewed" police especially if I am beginning to feel targeted by them.

    The police can arrest someone simply for being verbally combative (read "non-compliant" or "interfering with an officer of the law") amongst other attitudes and this can lead to more trouble than it is worth IMHO whether it is valid or not. I don't want to lose any of the rights granted to me by the founding fathers anymore than the rest of you but simple common sense is extremely uncommon these days as it seems to have been replaced with bravado.

    JMHO again but I choose to prefer displaying common sense and if I feel wronged, there are proper legal and political avenues to use that might get a better reaction or even change for the better (not OBAMA "change").

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  12. #26
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    This type of stuff is what makes average citizens despise LEO's. I think the issue is that these guys deal with douche bags all day and they start to think everyone is a criminal. And just because you have a badge and a gun everyone is supposed to kiss ass even if they are being treated unreasonably. I see this as something that could have been handled better on both sides. If you all ready know that these LEO's have it in for you, don't stir the pot.

    I guess I am not so quick to cast judgement on either side because the whole story is not being told.
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    It is worth reading the comments under the post on Police One to get more of an insight into the events. Soloman uses the name Kingsoloman in his posting of replys. He describes himself as a "pro fighter, I am a lethal weapon".
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  14. #28
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    Unspoken in all this, there have been some recent "issues" in Phila. turning on the legitimacy of the FL non-residence license.
    Phila DA properly upheld PA state law against Phila police, but there probably are some egos still smarting from the hit and maybe some Phila. LEOs who never got the memo.

    This may be an unspoken motive for the actions of the LEOs. Its wrong if true, but people are people.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    It is worth reading the comments under the post on Police One to get more of an insight into the events. Soloman uses the name Kingsoloman in his posting of replys. He describes himself as a "pro fighter, I am a lethal weapon".
    Be aware that anyone could register under any name and post comments posing as the person in the article. Doesn't mean it is actually that person. If he has a lawyer, I'm sure the lawyer would tell him not to post anything about the incident on the net. [sarcasm font: on] Surprisingly, sometimes people on the internet aren't who they are pretending to be (gasp) and they may have malicious intent (like trying to make the person look bad). [sarcasm font: off]

    I did read the comments as well and found them interesting. As I read the ones from kingsolomon, that distinct possibility crossed my mind.
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  16. #30
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    Maybe I missed something but was this guy open carrying? If concealed how did they know he had a gun.
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