This is a discussion on PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms....... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Moga What difference does it make? He was conducting himself in a lawful manner regardless of which document he carried. There could ...
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Discharged as S/Sgt, 11th Airborne Div
Something smells rotten in this story. I think there is a lot more that is being withheld and my BS meter is pegging pretty high at the moment.
Why is this guy so "belligerent"? Permit or not and bus stop or not, if you are told to leave, you leave...period. You may not like it and there may be a power issue here with the LEOs but this guy is NOT an LEO. Maybe he "feels" like one or maybe even tries to "act" like one but he isn't. The excerpts posted from him (at least to me) indicate that he expresses and overt disrespect for the LEOs and maybe even some level of self-entitlement.
JMHO though. This "attitude" just irks me a bit. Maybe I need more protein in my diet...
If this is a known drug dealing corner, then why aren't they doing something about it???
Police, "Criminals sell a lot of drugs here."
CCP holder, "Then why aren't you arresting them?"
If he was taking pictures of people conducting illegal activity on the corner, then why would they want to erase the pics? That's his private property and the pictures are of public places. Not like he was taking pictures of a crime scene that would interfere with an investigation.
I do also believe there are many elements to the entire history of the ordeal that are not reflected. This probably runs both wide and deep. Hard to tell exactly where the reality of the situation on both sides rests.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
I will admit we don't know a lot about the motives of John Solomon. I will also argue his motives don't matter one bit in terms of the legality of what the officers did. Where in the law or Constitution does it say you give up your rights because you were "being insolent and used poor judgment"? Assume he was trying to provoke a confrontation with the police, wanted to get his camera phone pics erased, etc. So what? Don't you think MLK, the Freedom Riders, and others in the civil rights movement wanted to get into confrontations with the police? Is a desire to provoke such a confrontation in order to point out an injustice a bad thing? Isn't it rather a good thing?
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doesn't appear to be their rule of law. With that said, the matter of the state of issuance of the license on which the citizen was lawfully carrying when he was confronted by Philly PD seems to be immaterial. The bottom line is that he wasn't breaking any laws at the time in question nor was he trespassing on private property. Wouldn't you agree?
So someone who is not breaking the law. Has been searched before with no drugs found is suspected of drug trafficking? WOW. What some people who aren't local may not know that the PD made over 100K stop and frisk contacts. ACLU is now filing a suit (not a ACLU fan by far, just saying). IMHO policing should be the observation of a crime and an action to stop it. Locking down an area and frisking the heck out of people just smacks too much like a police state to me.
If you don't like the law change it. Until you change it enforce it. Giving people license without limits historically has not worked out. When YOU get stopped how would you want to be treated. Are you a citizen or a perp?
Last edited by msb45; November 5th, 2010 at 11:27 PM. Reason: sp
While I agree that both sides are not necessarily behaving like adults, I am in no way suggesting that the local Police have any more constitutional rights than the citizen in question (or anyone else for that matter). I know that there are thousands of documented cased of police with attitudes, bad officers, bad decisions by police etc but that doesn't mean that the person in question should be combative, even verbally. IMHO, one should use more restraint and respect especially if these officers seem like they are targeting him. I would feel better having some big legal guns on my side rather than trying to come up against some potentially "skewed" police especially if I am beginning to feel targeted by them.
The police can arrest someone simply for being verbally combative (read "non-compliant" or "interfering with an officer of the law") amongst other attitudes and this can lead to more trouble than it is worth IMHO whether it is valid or not. I don't want to lose any of the rights granted to me by the founding fathers anymore than the rest of you but simple common sense is extremely uncommon these days as it seems to have been replaced with bravado.
JMHO again but I choose to prefer displaying common sense and if I feel wronged, there are proper legal and political avenues to use that might get a better reaction or even change for the better (not OBAMA "change").
As our family's TKD instructor says..."Life isn't fair...so suck it up and deal with it."
This type of stuff is what makes average citizens despise LEO's. I think the issue is that these guys deal with douche bags all day and they start to think everyone is a criminal. And just because you have a badge and a gun everyone is supposed to kiss ass even if they are being treated unreasonably. I see this as something that could have been handled better on both sides. If you all ready know that these LEO's have it in for you, don't stir the pot.
I guess I am not so quick to cast judgement on either side because the whole story is not being told.
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It is worth reading the comments under the post on Police One to get more of an insight into the events. Soloman uses the name Kingsoloman in his posting of replys. He describes himself as a "pro fighter, I am a lethal weapon".
"Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".
"A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".
Unspoken in all this, there have been some recent "issues" in Phila. turning on the legitimacy of the FL non-residence license.
Phila DA properly upheld PA state law against Phila police, but there probably are some egos still smarting from the hit and maybe some Phila. LEOs who never got the memo.
This may be an unspoken motive for the actions of the LEOs. Its wrong if true, but people are people.
I did read the comments as well and found them interesting. As I read the ones from kingsolomon, that distinct possibility crossed my mind.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Maybe I missed something but was this guy open carrying? If concealed how did they know he had a gun.
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U.S. Navy vet 1955-1959, USS Dashiell DD 659. Glock 19, Ruger LCP, Ruger .357 Mag.
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