PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms.......

This is a discussion on PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms....... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.policeone.com/news/286445...ealed-carrier/ I am not to sure about this one. Seems there may be more to it then what the article is saying. SORRY MY BAD. ...

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Thread: PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms.......

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Unhappy PA Police Arrest CCW Holder.... Confiscate Firearms.......

    http://www.policeone.com/news/286445...ealed-carrier/

    I am not to sure about this one. Seems there may be more to it then what the article is saying.

    SORRY MY BAD. I did not see this article was posted earlier today.
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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    This guy just makes the rest of us look bad!
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Reading the story and the blog posts, sounds like the guy got hosed. He had a security training officer permit and a Florida CCW (reciprocal with PA) and wasn't committing a crime . Waiting at a bus stop and they told him to disperse. Why? Isn't that what you do at a bus stop...wait? Then arrested him for loitering. His lawyer told him to go back and take pictures of the bus stop and the people there and he did on advice from his attorney. His phone was confiscated and pictures erased by police. HUH? Can they do that? He was taking pictures of other people at the same bus stop. Isn't this still America? Can't a person still wait at a public bus stop and take pictures in public? Perhaps there's more to it, but based on the little bit that is available it seems as though they are messing with him. Maybe some past experiences and run-ins. Given what is available, it doesn't seem as though he was doing anything wrong. More may come out later.
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    I see bad on both sides of this one. I find myself asking that question a lot BugDude... 'Isn't this still America?" I'm starting to think it's not!
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    There is so much wrong on both sides it is hard to narrow it down. But most importantly is we have to respect the rights of the illegal immagrant in this country but screw this guy when he has every right to be where he was and do what he was doing This is America. I hope he wins and then sues the crap out of them. And normally I dont question the police ever but man you got to draw the line somewhere.
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    I agree with this person to a certain point-where I don't agree with him is that the Beat Officer said that this is a drug corner for drug dealers. My question is could he have choose a different bus stop? Just my two cents! But I think is more to the story then they telling us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Reading the story and the blog posts, sounds like the guy got hosed. He had a security training officer permit and a Florida CCW (reciprocal with PA) and wasn't committing a crime . Waiting at a bus stop and they told him to disperse. Why? Isn't that what you do at a bus stop...wait? Then arrested him for loitering. His lawyer told him to go back and take pictures of the bus stop and the people there and he did on advice from his attorney. His phone was confiscated and pictures erased by police. HUH? Can they do that? He was taking pictures of other people at the same bus stop. Isn't this still America? Can't a person still wait at a public bus stop and take pictures in public? Perhaps there's more to it, but based on the little bit that is available it seems as though they are messing with him. Maybe some past experiences and run-ins. Given what is available, it doesn't seem as though he was doing anything wrong. More may come out later.
    This guy needs a 'distant' movie person to tape the incidents...cops here do not seem to be using good judgement. Cops should not be making up situations to fit crime...they seem to be harassing this guy, and it's could cost the city some $$$...I hope it does.
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    I consider Philadelphia a "Third World City" and NOT part of "America" anymore ; I will never go there.
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    yessh, the cops really don't like us there do they?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sample View Post
    I agree with this person to a certain point-where I don't agree with him is that the Beat Officer said that this is a drug corner for drug dealers. My question is could he have choose a different bus stop? Just my two cents! But I think is more to the story then they telling us.
    So...I gotta ask....was the street corner posted? (i.e. a "gun-free" zone to allow drug dealers to conduct their business in a safe manner?)
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    I do not think it is out of line for Pennsylvania to require a resident who carries, to have a LTCF. Why not a PA LTCF with no training requirements for $26 versus a Florida license with training requirements (or a DD214), fingerprints and approx, $107? Something doesn't seem right about his actions. Is he unable to qualify for the PA LTCF ? Has he been denied an LTCF for legitimate reasons? I would not rush to judgement without all the facts.
    Last edited by bionicskip; November 5th, 2010 at 03:38 PM.
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    Question What the heck!

    Too much not known about CCW's history to second guess what's up with him. Motive?? Pay-off??
    IMO Phillie LE acted in some very questionable ways!! . . . if what the article stated actually took place.
    Would 'erasing' the photos on his cell phone be tampering with evidence?, or invasion of privacy?, or some other GESTAPO like description?
    As to it being a "known drug corner for drug dealers" I gotta ask what 50 years of the war on drugs has done for Phila.?
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    Kind of a weird deal. What was the guy doing at the bus stop? Was he there being a cop wanna be for the drug dealers? Keeping an eye on the situation and trying to limit the drug activity. I don't know, and I doubt that we will ever find out the intentions of the guy.

    Does he have a right to be at the bus stop. Maybe. Before folks get their shorts in a knot, the reason that I say maybe is that even in our small town we have folks that use the bus stop shelters as places to get out of the weather. There are what appear to be homeless people who sit there for long periods of time with no intention of getting on any bus. The folks that are actually waiting on busses should not have to stand in the rain or whatever because there is a dirty, smelly homeless person that has taken up residence in the shelter.

    If the guy was displacing legitimate folks who were actually waiting to get on a bus and pay for the service, he should have been asked to move and if he is not cooperating with police, well then I guess he found out what the consequences are. Was this the case, I don't know.

    There certainly seems to be some history being that this is the third time they guy has lost a gun to the police department. It doesn't look good for him or other CHL holders when we but heads with the cops.

    Could the cops have been wrong, sure. I really would like to get some more detailed info on this, but I doubt that will be available.
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    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Reading the story and the blog posts, sounds like the guy got hosed. He had a security training officer permit and a Florida CCW (reciprocal with PA) and wasn't committing a crime . Waiting at a bus stop and they told him to disperse. Why? Isn't that what you do at a bus stop...wait? Then arrested him for loitering. His lawyer told him to go back and take pictures of the bus stop and the people there and he did on advice from his attorney. His phone was confiscated and pictures erased by police. HUH? Can they do that? He was taking pictures of other people at the same bus stop. Isn't this still America? Can't a person still wait at a public bus stop and take pictures in public? Perhaps there's more to it, but based on the little bit that is available it seems as though they are messing with him. Maybe some past experiences and run-ins. Given what is available, it doesn't seem as though he was doing anything wrong. More may come out later.
    Not to paint with a broad brush, but Philly PD has shown strong streak of JBT mentality over the last five to ten years, especially when it comes to LTCF holders. Do a little poking around at forum.PAFOA.org and see for yourself. I believe that there are several ongoing disputes currently being debated on the board involving PPD stealing guns from license holders and refusing to return property. Last I heard that's a textbook definition of an unreasonable seizure.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicskip View Post
    I do not think it is out of line for Pennsylvania to require a resident who carries, to have a LTCF. Why not a PA LTCF with no training requirements for $26 versus a Florida license with training requirements (or a DD214), fingerprints and approx, $207? Something doesn't seem right about his actions. Is he unable to qualify for the PA LTCF ? Has he been denied an LTCF for legitimate reasons? I would not rush to judgement without all the facts.
    What difference does it make? He was conducting himself in a lawful manner regardless of which document he carried. There could be a thousand reasons why he elected to have a FL CWP and not a PA LTCF but they aren't relevant because those states have reciprocity. I have a FL CWP as well as a GA GWL and licenses/permits from a few other states. Is something not right about that too? Further, as you've stated, the requirements for a CWP are more involved than for a LTCF, so it wouldn't appear that the victim elected one carry document over another because it was easier to obtain.

    The guy suffers harassment by the police but instead the focus of your post is on the states of issue of his carry licenses?
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