My girlfriend asked a question I can't answer

My girlfriend asked a question I can't answer

This is a discussion on My girlfriend asked a question I can't answer within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I realize this ain't no legal advisory board but.. Let me explain: She's planning to file her app soon for her CPL. One decisive factor ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31

Thread: My girlfriend asked a question I can't answer

  1. #1
    Member Array 3rik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    183

    My girlfriend asked a question I can't answer

    I realize this ain't no legal advisory board but..

    Let me explain: She's planning to file her app soon for her CPL. One decisive factor in this is that she has recently joined an athletic league and occasionally walks or takes the bus to their dedicated, private training space. She travels to and from in the dark, alone, etc. Pretty safe part of town, very close to home, but still...

    Obviously she couldn't have a pistol on her while they practice. The question however is whether or not she could keep a pistol locked in a mini-safe off her body, in a discreet location at the private space while they practice. (Unfortunately they don't have gym lockers at this time. The location could possibly be her gym bag, within her view.)

    Two questions really.
    A) I can't find anything under Chapter 9.41 RCW that discusses this. How do I get to the bottom of whether or not this is legal?
    B) If it IS legitimate and legal, should she discuss this with the team directors and store it in the office or keep it quietly in her gym bag (locked within a combination pistol safe).

    I'm leaning a little more toward the official route of discussing this with the directors and storing it in the office but then, as has been mentioned here before, one never knows what a discussion like that is going to bring about.


  2. #2
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,053
    Well not knowing the laws in your state the official route may result in them telling her she can't carry there. Storing in a gym bag even in here sight could pose a problem in someone happened to go into it. The small lock box idea may be good but it may go back to whether it is legal/have permission or not for her to carry there in the first place.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rik View Post
    I realize this ain't no legal advisory board but..

    Let me explain: She's planning to file her app soon for her CPL. One decisive factor in this is that she has recently joined an athletic league and occasionally walks or takes the bus to their dedicated, private training space. She travels to and from in the dark, alone, etc. Pretty safe part of town, very close to home, but still...

    Obviously she couldn't have a pistol on her while they practice. The question however is whether or not she could keep a pistol locked in a mini-safe off her body, in a discreet location at the private space while they practice. (Unfortunately they don't have gym lockers at this time. The location could possibly be her gym bag, within her view.)

    Two questions really.
    A) I can't find anything under Chapter 9.41 RCW that discusses this. How do I get to the bottom of whether or not this is legal?
    B) If it IS legitimate and legal, should she discuss this with the team directors and store it in the office or keep it quietly in her gym bag (locked within a combination pistol safe).

    I'm leaning a little more toward the official route of discussing this with the directors and storing it in the office but then, as has been mentioned here before, one never knows what a discussion like that is going to bring about.
    Trying to keep a gun secured in a gym bag while attempting to exercise is futility in my opinion.

    Unless your girlfriend has a locker to secure the gun she would be better off having a trusted, trained, and competent person take control of her firearm for the duration of time she is exercising. Either that, or keep it in a Fanny Pack on her person. That may not be an option, depending on the sport she is doing.

    I would not be inclined to ask the management, as their primary concern will be their profit margin and insurance rates. It would be easiest for them to tell her "No" and lose one customer, than to say "Yes" and lose the fifteen other soccer moms that think guns are evil and only the military and law enforcement should have them. Also, her "secret", concealed carry, is out of the bag, and no longer a secret.

    Just my opinion.

    Biker

  4. #4
    Member Array mfcmb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    428
    You might check http://www.handgunlaw.us/ to see if it has any applicable info for your state.

    As long as there are no laws prohibiting it, If it were me I'd just not tell anyone.

    It's interesting how these discussions go. I (and probably most of us) wouldn't ask permission to carry a knife, or a kubaton, or pepper spray, or a flashlight with a strike bezel, or a sap, or any other self defense tool. But somehow when it's a gun we discuss it as if it's a whole different animal. This is probably because the world at large (the sheep) react as if it's an entirely different matter, but must we do so too?
    In the heat of the moment, what matters is what your body knows -- not what your mind knows.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    A couple of things here.

    First, I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding question A) I can't find anything under Chapter 9.41 RCW that discusses this. How do I get to the bottom of whether or not this is legal? Are you asking if their "private training space" is at a location where guns are prohibited under your state statutes? If so, I can't help you there. Especially since you haven't specified where that "private training space" is. Is it on private property, like a commercial gym or is it on some sort of school campus, etc.?

    In regards to your second question, I can assure you if she asks the team directors to store it in their office, I can almost guarantee the answer will be no! First, they won't want the responsibility for having the gun in their office. And probably more importantly, it will be too much of a hassle for them to keep accommodating her providing a special secure location for her to lock up her gun at every meeting. People in general, and coaches especially don't like to be inconvenienced all the time. They would find it annoying and it opens them up to start making accommodations for everyone else who may want to keep their "special dietary snacks" in their mini-fridge and what other outlandish request someone may make. Also, you risk the fact that one of them may be an anti-gun zealot and then it absolutely will be a big no.

    What I would do... and this is just me. I would tell no one about the gun. I mean no one! No friends, no best friends, no favorite work-out partner or anyone. Then I would invest in one of the many varieties of Pacsafe Anti-Theft Bags which come in about a hundred different configurations and lock it to some hardened fixed object at their work-out location. If you are not familiar with the Pacsafe Travel Security Devices, they started out as merely steel wire mesh nets of various sizes which allowed travelers to put their backpacks, purses, or luggage inside and pad-lock it to a pole or fixed object to keep thieves from stealing a persons soft sided luggage or backpack. The steel wire mesh also prevented thieves from using a knife or razor from slicing the pack open and stealing the contents. Great idea and works well. Since then they have expanded their product line to include all kinds of purses, messenger bags, duffle bags which now has the steel wire mesh sandwiched between the leather or nylon fabric of the bag itself so there is no tell tale sign that it is a high security storage bag, pack, messenger bag, duffel or whatever. Have her pick out a suitable Packsafe bag to accommodate all her work-out gear and then pad-lock it to something which won't allow it to "walk away" when she's not looking.

    The problem with just putting the pistol inside a small lock box inside her regular "non-secured" gym bag or work-out bag is that she can't possibly keep her eye on it the entire time she's working out. She may make a quick trip to the bathroom and forget to take it with her, or just a few moments inattention while she's working out and next thing you know her whole bag is gone. Even if she has a gym bag with double zippers and she locks the bag, the Pacsafe prevents someone from cutting it open using a box cutter or knife.

    Check them out here. They have a wide variety of bags, packs, purses, duffels, laptop cases, etc.







    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #6
    Member Array 3rik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    First, I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding question A) I can't find anything under Chapter 9.41 RCW that discusses this. How do I get to the bottom of whether or not this is legal? Are you asking if their "private training space" is at a location where guns are prohibited under your state statutes? If so, I can't help you there. Especially since you haven't specified where that "private training space" is. Is it on private property, like a commercial gym or is it on some sort of school campus, etc.?
    You're right, it's an obscure question. What I'm saying is that after numerous full reviews of all WA State Handgun laws I cannot find anything pertaining to the legality of a scenario such as this. The closest comparison is carrying a pistol in a car, which is not so close at all. Of my imagination, the closest comparison I would use would be a gun stored at a local gym while working out. I'm wondering if the absence of any such documentation would imply that something of this nature would in fact be legal. OR if that's too risky to assume (assumptions, handguns = bad), what authority does one contact to ask a question like this? The local Sheriff's Dept.? An attorney?

    Those Pacsafe bags are kinda cool by the way.

    Edit: The space is a non-public, rented warehouse. Seems good to go as far as I'm concerned. The grey area is that it's not a private residence and not a business. I guess you could call it a "workspace".

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Your state doesn't have a list of places guns are off limits? ie, restaurants who serve alcohol, post office, schools, courthouses, etc? If it's not listed and the premises isn't posted, it should be legal to possess at that location.

    In Missouri, posted business doesn't mean much as it is not a criminal offense. All they can do is ask you to leave if they discover your weapon. Only if you refuse to leave peacefully can you be fined, or have your permit suspended. And even then, it's not a crime.

    I did find this at USACarry.com for Washington State:

    http://www.usacarry.com/washington_c...formation.html

    Places off-limits when carrying:

    Washington defines a number of places you cannot carry:
    1. Any place where carrying firearms is prohibited by federal law
    2. Public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas/facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools (RCW 9.41.280)
    3. On the site of an "outdoor music festival" (RCW 70.108.150)
    4. Restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (RCW 9.41.300)
    5. Areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices, etc. (RCW 9.41.300)
    6. The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment (RCW 9.41.300)
    7. Any portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age (RCW 9.41.300)
    Please see RCW 9.41.300 for additional areas and more detailed descriptions of the restricted carry areas above.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #8
    Member Array 3rik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Your state doesn't have a list of places guns are off limits? ie, restaurants who serve alcohol, post office, schools, courthouses, etc? If it's not listed and the premises isn't posted, it should be legal to possess at that location.

    In Missouri, posted business doesn't mean much as it is not a criminal offense. All they can do is ask you to leave if they discover your weapon. Only if you refuse to leave peacefully can you be fined, or have your permit suspended. And even then, it's not a crime.

    I did find this at USACarry.com for Washington State:

    http://www.usacarry.com/washington_c...formation.html

    Places off-limits when carrying:

    Washington defines a number of places you cannot carry:
    1. Any place where carrying firearms is prohibited by federal law
    2. Public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas/facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools (RCW 9.41.280)
    3. On the site of an "outdoor music festival" (RCW 70.108.150)
    4. Restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (RCW 9.41.300)
    5. Areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices, etc. (RCW 9.41.300)
    6. The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment (RCW 9.41.300)
    7. Any portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age (RCW 9.41.300)
    Please see RCW 9.41.300 for additional areas and more detailed descriptions of the restricted carry areas above.
    Yep. That's about as detailed as it gets. Makes me think that final say is from the lessee.

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Is there a reason you can not tell what kind of building it is? Ie, a school, hospital or something?

    Here's a copy of the entire Washington Statute RCW 9.41.300 which outlines the prohibited places and what are exempt. If you need help interpreting a specific section, let us know. As I read it, there are very few places which are prohibited. In which case, I don't see the need to ask permission.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

    RCW 9.41.300
    Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.



    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

    (a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;

    (b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

    For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

    The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;

    (c) The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress and ingress open to the general public;

    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    (e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    (ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

    (3)(a) Cities, towns, and counties may enact ordinances restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold, but, except as provided in (b) of this subsection, a business selling firearms may not be treated more restrictively than other businesses located within the same zone. An ordinance requiring the cessation of business within a zone shall not have a shorter grandfather period for businesses selling firearms than for any other businesses within the zone.

    (b) Cities, towns, and counties may restrict the location of a business selling firearms to not less than five hundred feet from primary or secondary school grounds, if the business has a storefront, has hours during which it is open for business, and posts advertisements or signs observable to passersby that firearms are available for sale. A business selling firearms that exists as of the date a restriction is enacted under this subsection (3)(b) shall be grandfathered according to existing law.

    (4) Violations of local ordinances adopted under subsection (2) of this section must have the same penalty as provided for by state law.

    (5) The perimeter of the premises of any specific location covered by subsection (1) of this section shall be posted at reasonable intervals to alert the public as to the existence of any law restricting the possession of firearms on the premises.

    (6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments, while engaged in official duties;

    (b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter 10.14, 10.99, or 26.50 RCW, or an action under Title 26 RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010; or

    (c) Security personnel while engaged in official duties.

    (7) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.

    (8) Subsection (1)(c) of this section does not apply to any administrator or employee of the facility or to any person who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises.

    (9) Subsection (1)(d) of this section does not apply to the proprietor of the premises or his or her employees while engaged in their employment.

    (10) Any person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    (11) "Weapon" as used in this section means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or instrument or weapon listed in RCW 9.41.250.

    [2008 c 33 § 1. Prior: 2004 c 116 § 1; 2004 c 16 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 429; 1993 c 396 § 1; 1985 c 428 § 2.]
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  10. #10
    Member Array 3rik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    183
    The space is a non-public, rented warehouse. Seems good to go as far as I'm concerned. The grey area is that it's not a private residence and not a business. I guess you could call it a "workspace".

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kommie-fornia-stan
    Posts
    7,090
    If it were me, I'd go with what Bark'n is telling you. Because no one else is concerned for your (or your GF) safety. The state lists where you cannot carry....it WON'T list where you can. Not to mention, if it's concealed, it's concealed...and no one knows. Not to mention, how often to people go through other people's bags in a sports practice? I've played baseball, soccer...and there is no way I'm going through someone else's sweaty gear, much less, a woman's bag....Do you know what they keep in those things!? It seems like everything except the kitchen sink.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  12. #12
    Member Array MaineGlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fargo, North Dakota
    Posts
    156
    In my experience I have contacted a few different offices when I am stumped with a question.
    1. Your State's Attorney General - I have contacted these folks in PA and ND and they have been VERY helpful in understanding things
    2. The Issuing Authority for your permit - I have contacted the State Police in ME, MA, and IL. These folks are also a good source and close to the front line so you may hear what they would do in a situation such as yours.
    3. The NRA, (or SAF, I don’t know if they have a list) contact them for the name of a good lawyer in your area if you can’t get a good answer from 1 & 2. I kind of rely on lawyers last (no offence to any on this board!) due to cost and each has a different understanding of how the law works.
    Take care and keep safe, hope one of these may help you and your girlfriend.
    If Guns kill people then all of mine are defective!
    My idea of gun control is using BOTH hands!

    Permits in: ND (resident), CT, UT, FL, AZ & MN
    North Dakota Concealed Carry Instructor
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor

  13. #13
    Member Array NavyC4S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Newark, DE
    Posts
    28
    what is wrong with a trigger lock?

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado at 11,650'
    Posts
    12,777
    I carried my EDC, loaded, in a gym, in a gym bag, in a holster, for several years. The bag also held my water jug, keys, cell phone, and a towel. No locks, no nothing other than concealed. The bag accompanied me from station to station where I kept an eye on it. Not ideal, but it worked and it was totally legal in Texas. I suggest the same is attainable in WA.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bay City
    Posts
    2,295
    Since you said she either walks or takes the bus to practice, I think you also need to check into public transportation. As I recall some states do not allow concealed carry on buses.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. What is your most asked question?
    By Kingkoopa in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: December 31st, 2009, 12:05 AM
  2. Girlfriend Asked Me Why I Carry...10 o'clock News Tells Her Why
    By Nova in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: November 6th, 2009, 10:51 PM
  3. A question I should have asked...
    By AllAmerican in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: December 1st, 2008, 07:02 PM
  4. She asked the question...!!
    By monky in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: July 16th, 2008, 08:36 AM

Search tags for this page

can't carry my girlfriend
,
cant carry my girlfriend
,
girlfriend defensive when asked question
,
i can carry my girlfriend
,

i can't carry my girlfriend

,
i cant carry my gf
,
i cant carry my girlfriend
,
kubaton laws massachusetts
,

kubaton wa rcw

,
rcw kubaton
Click on a term to search for related topics.