Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves

This is a discussion on Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; NOTE: Mods, if this has been posted before, or it is in the wrong place, I apologize, and please delete! I found this while explaining ...

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Thread: Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves

  1. #1
    Member Array basher052's Avatar
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    Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves

    NOTE: Mods, if this has been posted before, or it is in the wrong place, I apologize, and please delete!

    I found this while explaining to my brother-in-law why I consider myself a sheepdog.

    http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/1..._hang_wit.html


    If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... "Baa."

    Thought that was a great line in the story.
    Andy
    You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas - David Crockett
    When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #2
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    Col. Grossman's classic piece needs scant introduction here on DC, but I don't think you'll run afoul of any rules with a fresh reference to it.

    Never a cop, never in the military, just a concerned citizen here who takes his own safety and that of my loved ones seriously. My first training course was Ayoob's LFI-1, and it was thought-provoking to the point of changing my life. Every now and then I catch myself thinking "come on, you're only making a 10-minute trip to the supermarket" (or similar) as a reason to not leave the house armed, but that thought doesn't not last but a fleeting moment.

    That said, one mustn't get carried away with the sheepdog role, but rather keep a firm grasp on what is the role of the armed civilian. We are not cops, we are not trained to prevent crime; we are prepared to prevent grievous bodily harm to ourselves and to those within the 'umbrella' of our protection.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

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    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    ...one mustn't get carried away with the sheepdog role, but rather keep a firm grasp on what is the role of the armed civilian. We are not cops, we are not trained to prevent crime; we are prepared to prevent grievous bodily harm to ourselves and to those within the 'umbrella' of our protection.
    Well said. I personally find the terms sheep and sheep dog ridiculous and way overused. I am no sheep when unarmed and I am no ones sheep dog when armed.

    I carry to protect myself, my wife and my two daughters. Period. I may or may not intervene to help a stranger in a time of need. It depends. My carrying a gun does not automatically make me that strangers keeper or protector or "sheep dog".

    Too many get their permits and suddenly become their own little super hero. Reality check. Life isn't written by Marvel or D.C or Hollywood. Go about your life, protect your families and seriously reign in this "hero complex" that some call being a sheep dog.

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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basher052 View Post
    If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... "Baa."
    I've read Grossman...decent stuff.

    However I disagree with the statement you posted.

    A gun is only one small part of keeping yourself and others safe. And you should be able to do so without one as well.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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    If the fact whether you are armed or not is the deciding factor if you are a sheep or sheepdog you are relying to much on a firearm.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    I am never without a weapon even if I don't have a firearm on me. The best weapon any of us have sits squarely on top of our shoulders.
    "Mind own business"
    "Always cut cards"

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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep
    Well, now I can say that I've read something incorrect today.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    The initial thread was to the point. The replies were better. Thanks repliers for adding some basic commom sense to the conversation

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    I'm a DOG whether I'm armed or not..... Grrrrr, ruff ruff.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    The OP ment well with his posting and the quote he posted is from the article. We all have to decide what part we are going to play in this life and the comments of the other posters are very thought provoking. Bottom line when we look in the mirror we have to be comfortable with our actions and believe that what we have done in any given situation was the right action to the best of our knowledge of that situation and of our abilities. My personal belief is that we who are stronger do have a moral duty to help those who are not as capable in a lawful and justified self defense situation but I am not imposing that idea or philosophy on anyone else. My $.02.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    +1 Old School, and IMO worth way more than $.02.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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    This metaphor of the sheep and sheepdogs is getting a bit long in the tooth (no pun intended).

    While the good colonel's speech does tend to make one grab a gun and rush out to fight the evils of the world by refusing to be defenseless to the BGs (we are easily swayed by thoughtful rhetoric), there are those individuals (many more, in fact) who simply refuse to carry and feel they should never be forced to concede defeat to the evils by going forth armed. It's a personal choice either way, and who's to say either side is right?

    This idea of because one is entitled to carry a firearm automatically makes one a "warrior" is disturbing and egotistic. Anyone who desires to be viewed as any sort of warrior needs only to enter the service and join the real warriors on the frontlines. There's nothing worse than a wannabe of any sort.

    As to involving one's self in the aid of others, that's another individual matter. Some fear legal repercussions; some don't. Some fear personal harm; some don't. What anyone does when a third party is concerned is something only they have to live with. I've stepped in on several occasions to assist someone in dire need, without consideration of legalities or personal harm. Fortunately, none of these events involved using firearms in SD. But those were my choices, and my choices alone. Others may/would have made other choices.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EB31 View Post
    Well said. I personally find the terms sheep and sheep dog ridiculous and way overused. I am no sheep when unarmed and I am no ones sheep dog when armed.

    I carry to protect myself, my wife and my two daughters. Period. I may or may not intervene to help a stranger in a time of need. It depends. My carrying a gun does not automatically make me that strangers keeper or protector or "sheep dog".

    Too many get their permits and suddenly become their own little super hero. Reality check. Life isn't written by Marvel or D.C or Hollywood. Go about your life, protect your families and seriously reign in this "hero complex" that some call being a sheep dog.
    My friend EeeBee saved me the trouble of typing this myself.

    Well said.

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    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Sorry but where does carrying a gun make one into a warrior? When I carried it was for my protection not to go combat evil. that’s for the video games I play with my little sister. My plan A us the same with or without a gun. Get out of the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EB31 View Post
    Well said. I personally find the terms sheep and sheep dog ridiculous and way overused. I am no sheep when unarmed and I am no ones sheep dog when armed.

    I carry to protect myself, my wife and my two daughters. Period. I may or may not intervene to help a stranger in a time of need. It depends. My carrying a gun does not automatically make me that strangers keeper or protector or "sheep dog".

    Too many get their permits and suddenly become their own little super hero. Reality check. Life isn't written by Marvel or D.C or Hollywood. Go about your life, protect your families and seriously reign in this "hero complex" that some call being a sheep dog.
    Very well said.

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