"Concealed Weapons Prohibited"

This is a discussion on "Concealed Weapons Prohibited" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Most places that are open to the public are owned by private individuals or corporations so therefore they have the same right as the homeowner ...

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Thread: "Concealed Weapons Prohibited"

  1. #31
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    Most places that are open to the public are owned by private individuals or corporations so therefore they have the same right as the homeowner to say what you can or cannot do or bring onto their property.

    If you feel you are in that great a risk when going to one of these places either don't go there, carry some other form of defense or carry anyway and risk what happens.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Sky Pilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    The signs are not about crime, their about liability.
    This is true, but with a twist.
    The "Designated Victim Zones" have long been a topic of discussion on Ohioans for Concealed Carry, and an individual with more knowledge than I on insurance and liability pointed out that the business -- by depriving us of that layer of security, by stripping us of our ability of keep ourselves safe -- assumes what is known in the trade as "Overwhelming Liability."
    I am no lawyer, I have no training in insurance, I'm just a greying old granddad who wants to keep his long tall carcass breathing another day.
    If the business posts, I don't patronize if at all possible.
    I prefer to avoid problems.
    I therefore avoid these designated victim zones, where all within have been legally disarmed for the convenience of the criminal.
    Last edited by Sky Pilot; December 2nd, 2010 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Misspelling
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by alienbogey View Post
    (shrug) Concealed means concealed.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Most places that are open to the public are owned by private individuals or corporations so therefore they have the same right as the homeowner to say what you can or cannot do or bring onto their property.

    If you feel you are in that great a risk when going to one of these places either don't go there, carry some other form of defense or carry anyway and risk what happens.
    I couldn't agree more, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. If I am entering someone's home, more than likely I know that person and will feel "relatively" safe while in their home, as they will maintain some degree of control over who enters their home. However, in places open to the public, there is little if any control over who enters.

    In the case I was presented with, I was not carrying at the time because I had just come from church (can't carry at church in Arkansas, not sure about Missouri), so I entered the mall and did my shopping as usual, just with a little more SA than normal. My choice may change depending on the location, but the purpose of my OP was really just to rant.
    Last edited by SigHawk; December 2nd, 2010 at 02:06 PM. Reason: spelling
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  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    The signs are not about crime, their about liability.
    Exactly.

    The fact that people ignore these signs willingly because they have no force of law is what disturbs me. The owners of the property have put them there and gun owners don't care as there is no legal consequence if they ignore the signs.

    And advocating putting up your own signs is vandalism in my opinion. Murder is prohibited by law, carrying a concealed firearm is not in the OPs state with a permit. However carrying anyway simply violates the property owners rights. I do also have to ask a hypothetical situation.

    If you went into Old Navy to try on clothing and you had a negligent discharge which takes the life of someone else in the store, would you be able to pay the fees for when Old Navy is sued in court because they did not attempt to prohibit carrying of firearms? And would you have the money to pay for the lawsuit from the victims family?

    I know that I have seen the argument that people make that they are now taking responsibility for your safety and are thusly liable, would the state now be liable and should they sue the state for placing them at risk by licensing people to carry weapons?

  7. #36
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    Here in Fl, so far, I've seen "no firearms" signs in only two places: ToysRus (all firearms) and a "no concealed firearms" in a local gun store. One-man store who I guess thinks the bad guys can even read, much less care about his sign. Haven't found anything worth looking at there (prices at sky-high) and I don't waste much time there.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rljohns View Post
    Even Tuesday Morning's in Castle Rock removed their signs. I think they may have a corp policy stating they must have signage and the local manager removed it.
    I believe Tuesday Morning has recently changed their corporate policy, as their signs have been removed all over the place. Quite happy to give them my business again :)

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I'm assuming it isn't located in an open carry state or you could just carry openly since the sign specifies concealed.
    actually missouri is..... but one has to worry about city laws........

    but i believe the sign means no guns doesnt say anything about conceal.
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  12. #41
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    As a rule I ignore business signage, but in many states CC in "Malls" is prohibited by state law, regardless of any business signage.
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  13. #42
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    Re: Minnesota law on posted businesses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    And doesn't endanger your license?
    There is no means in Minnesota law for taking action against your license for carrying in a place that is legally posted, whether you leave or not. This does NOT apply to locations where your permit is not statutorily applicable, such as schools, day cares, etc. Carrying there can be a felony and that will affect your permit.

    Minnesota also does not forbid carry in bars or establishments that serve alchohol, but your permit is conditioned on a BAC of 0.04 or below.
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  14. #43
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    Some members have had good results taking the time to write a polite, well thought out letter. Every once in a while, businesses have changed their view and taken down signs though I must admit, not so with major corporations.
    But you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!

    Here in Nevada, I just ignore those signs too!
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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    Exactly.

    The fact that people ignore these signs willingly because they have no force of law is what disturbs me. The owners of the property have put them there and gun owners don't care as there is no legal consequence if they ignore the signs.

    And advocating putting up your own signs is vandalism in my opinion. Murder is prohibited by law, carrying a concealed firearm is not in the OPs state with a permit. However carrying anyway simply violates the property owners rights. I do also have to ask a hypothetical situation.

    If you went into Old Navy to try on clothing and you had a negligent discharge which takes the life of someone else in the store, would you be able to pay the fees for when Old Navy is sued in court because they did not attempt to prohibit carrying of firearms? And would you have the money to pay for the lawsuit from the victims family?

    I know that I have seen the argument that people make that they are now taking responsibility for your safety and are thusly liable, would the state now be liable and should they sue the state for placing them at risk by licensing people to carry weapons?
    Couldn't you make that argument for carrying a firearm anywhere, not just a store? What if you had a ND on the street and killed someone? Would you have the money to pay for the lawsuit from the victim's family? Should the state be sued for allowing you to carry (i.e., allowing you to exercise your Consitutional right)? We live in a world where lawsuits are a risk, which is yet another reason (besides the obvious) that we practice firearm safety no matter where we are.

    It's worth noting too that I don't advocate putting up my own signs over top of the existing signs. This was said tongue-in-cheek in order to make a point and get a laugh.
    Last edited by SigHawk; December 6th, 2010 at 02:59 PM. Reason: spelling
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  16. #45
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Your second amendment "rights" don't trump the rights of a private property owner to set the rules for a place they own.
    In Missouri, if a private property owner has a business open to the public, our second amendment "rights" most certainly do trump the rights of the owner in regards to carrying concealed weapons into the business. The Missouri Legislature has put this into law.

    I understand some business owners do not like this, but it is the law. I am required to obey laws I don't like. So are such business owners.

    I understand all states are not like this. But in Missouri, my 2nd amendment rights trump a private business owner's rights.

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