Deciding when to stand and fight

This is a discussion on Deciding when to stand and fight within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by OldVet One question I like to ask for any of these scenerios is: If you didn't have a gun, would you have ...

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Thread: Deciding when to stand and fight

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    One question I like to ask for any of these scenerios is: If you didn't have a gun, would you have the same response? Too many, I feel, become involved or react a certain way only because they are armed, rather than using the firearm as a last resort.
    OldVet has sussed out the fundamental motivation for my thread. Almost all the posts here are on developing a pistol-fighting capability. I think more time should be given toward understanding the grave responsibilities or carrying a weapon, as well as the ramifications of its use.

    IMHO, we spend far too much time here discussing the "how", and far too little time discussing the "why".

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    "Why" Because I have been given no other choice. "How" Any way I can under the circumstances.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    You can avoid the fight at all costs, but that's martydom. The final cost of avoiding a fight is your life . And, I know you didn't mean it to that extent. But giving ground isn't an answer either... see: Compliance doesn't work: Link.

    Generally, I am not of the "stand your ground" mindset, but I have no desire to give in either. I believe in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The pursuit of happiness may lead me to places that are less "safe" than an avoidance mindset would allow me to go.

    That said, some situations (or scenarios presented here) do not offer the option of retreat. If safe retreat is an option I will take it... if cautious, defended retreat is a viable possibility, I may take that. Each situation is different, of course.

    Avoidance is ideal, but avoidance of risk entails diminishing the enjoyment of the variety of life. Lance Thomas is a perfect example of someone who has done both (stood his ground AND total avoidance). Standing his ground eventually came to the point of diminishing returns, and finally forced him into seclusion.

    Avoiding a fight at all costs might as well be severe agoraphobia.

    Once a situation has become a reality, there are many things I might do to escape the situation safely. But each situation is completely different.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    When to stand and fight, is when it is determined to be the least detrimental action.
    Very well put.
    Honor is self-esteem made visible in action. - Ayn Rand

  6. #20
    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    Go out of your way to avoid a confortation. I'm the last person to have road rage now that I carry.

    If by chance I'm confronted now, before I would draw a pistol I think of Disparity of Force.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    OldVet has sussed out the fundamental motivation for my thread. Almost all the posts here are on developing a pistol-fighting capability. I think more time should be given toward understanding the grave responsibilities or carrying a weapon, as well as the ramifications of its use.

    IMHO, we spend far too much time here discussing the "how", and far too little time discussing the "why".
    With the last half of the last sentence I can agree.

    That said, without understanding and practicing the "how," we may never be able to defend the "why".

    OR...

    "Why" is the first and the last consideration. The "how" is the means we use to keep the second "why" from being explained, for us, posthumously.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Very noble answers by all.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    OldVet has sussed out the fundamental motivation for my thread. Almost all the posts here are on developing a pistol-fighting capability. I think more time should be given toward understanding the grave responsibilities or carrying a weapon, as well as the ramifications of its use.

    IMHO, we spend far too much time here discussing the "how", and far too little time discussing the "why".
    The word is "wussed," and no, I didn't. We all know why we carry, and I hope we all know when to use(or at least i hope we all know). My concern is for those who draw because they can. Sometimes, from reading the words of some of those here, I feel they use the gun quicker than they use the brain. If they didn't have the gun, would they find another way to defuse the situation, would they have avoided it altogether. How often do you read where someone "reached for their gun" when some unknown approached them at a gas station--someone who it turns out meant no harm?

    All I asked is what would your alternative actions/responses be if not armed. And I believe that definitely falls under "the ramifications of its use" as you stated.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Sun Tzu's The Art of War is a book everyone should read even if you don't carry a gun. I've read it probably 4 or 5 times in the last 15 years. I've tried to incorporate a lot of his philosophy in my everyday life. He imparts a philosophy which works every bit as well in business and everyday life as it does to war and conflict.
    I've listened to "Coward of the County" a couple hundred times.....Does that count??


    Pretty cut and dried.... "I walk away when I can....."

  11. #25
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    What I have done, and it takes a LOT of practice, is to step back and think about what you say and how you react in a potentially heated situation. Being born with a temper, it has taken me years to control it and believe it or not, it only came out if someone threatened my family or I. Otherwise I could watch a barroom brawl burn itself out and pick up the pieces afterwards, chuckling the entire time. My practice was/is done in everyday, non threatening situations that at best might result in everyone making an a$$ of themselves. It's totally amazing how you can control a situation once you isolate yourself from it. Pulling that weapon is the LAST thing I ever want to do.

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Situations that would legally allow you to use your weapon are situations that you could only avoid by not being there in the first place.

    I'm also in agreement with SIGUY229 that to believe the other person(s) are as rational as you, could prove to be a fatal mistake.

  13. #27
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    In social situations, I agree with the general consensus, criminal, not.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  14. #28
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    I avoid all fights I possibly can and aim to end any I can't in my favor as fast as possibly. Once it becomes physical my goal is to stop the other person ASAP w/ whatever force is needed.

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The word is "wussed," and no, I didn't.
    No need to lecture me on the Queen's English, boyo. I was using a bit of British slang acquired in my travels and former living arrangements.

    Avail yourself of dictionary.com for a clue:

    suss   /sʌs/ Show Spelled
    [suhs] Show IPA

    –verb (used with object)
    Chiefly British Slang . to investigate or figure out (usually fol. by out ).

  16. #30
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    I stay out of potentially bad places...using common sense here.
    I'm going to avoid all confrontations, at all costs.
    Trap me in a parking lot and I will not play fairly.
    I'm too old for a fight...old men don't like to fight...don't pick on old men.
    Picking this old guy for a victim may be your unlucky day...I'm just sayin', I'm too old to fight, so...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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