Deciding when to stand and fight

This is a discussion on Deciding when to stand and fight within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have seen several threads lately where the issue of when to take a stand has been raised. I feel this is a critical aspect ...

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Thread: Deciding when to stand and fight

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Deciding when to stand and fight

    I have seen several threads lately where the issue of when to take a stand has been raised. I feel this is a critical aspect of understanding the responsibilities one has as a concealed carrier.

    Manging one's temper and avoiding situations that can escalate into a fight is far more important than what caliber hollow-point you carry.

    "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."
    ~~Sun Tzu

    I much prefer to fight my battles by proxy. This may not sound "manly" to many posters here, but it is certainly much safer for me and my family. I know when I get the feeling that I want to puff out my chest, make a rude hand gesture, or call someone names, I need to find a proxy.

    I see situations that end up in a fight or, worse, a gunfight, and wonder how else it could have been handled. Even drug dealers are smart enough to find arrogant "tough guys" to actually sell the product for them (their proxy), so they can avoid the dangers that come with defending a sales territory - the most dangerous aspect of the black market.

    Why fight with your neighbor if you can invoke a proxy that you've already paid for with your taxes? Use the legal system or law enforcement.

    Why be confrontational with coworkers when you can solicit support from other colleagues and use the management chain to deal with your concerns?

    Why confront a neighbor on your property or your porch when can call 911 from the safety of your home?

    Why confront strangers with the ubiquitous "What's your problem?" attitude when you can quietly slip away?

    I even used a proxy in a potential bar fight a few years ago. I was in the Caribbean drinking with some buddies, and one of the group managed to get himself entangled in a tough guy contest with a couple of huge palookas. He was motioning for us to come bail him out. Yes, he was dumb enough to think I was going to risk a beat-down because of his mouth.

    I simply asked for the bar manager, showed him our large bar bill, and said I wanted to settle up - leaving a $100 tip. He and a couple bartenders marched over and promptly tossed out the two big palookas and escorted us out to make an escape.

    My buddy asked why I didn't come to his rescue. I said, "I did. I sent the manager. I'm sure as heck not going to risk a beating because you're a fool."

    He asked, "What if they wouldn't intervene?"

    I replied, "I would have called you an ambulance."

    "Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
    ~~Sun Tzu

    You may feel cocky because you tote a handgun under your shirt, but it's not a good replacement for avoiding the fight in the first place.

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  3. #2
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    Sun Tzu's The Art of War is a book everyone should read even if you don't carry a gun. I've read it probably 4 or 5 times in the last 15 years. I've tried to incorporate a lot of his philosophy in my everyday life. He imparts a philosophy which works every bit as well in business and everyday life as it does to war and conflict.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Because not every situation can be solved civily...most of the time, when bad things happen, the bad guy gets a vote and we are reacting to what he/she does. While I agree with the point of your post, the reality is, not everyone is civil. That said, I am not advocating vigilatism--I agree you should use the resources available to you--but I believe most of us carry when our life is threatened and calling a "time out" is not an option.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    I'm an advocate of going out of my way to avoid a fight.
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    Shodan, Jujutsu

  6. #5
    3D
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    I frequently remind myself that:
    [1] I'm not the only person that carries a gun, or other deadly weapon;
    [2] Many people are on prescription drugs that alter their 'good judgement';
    [3] Many people are on illicit drugs that alter their 'good judgement';
    [4] Many violent criminals have been released into the general population by the judicial system;
    [5] Many impaired individuals have been released into the general population by 'mental' institutions;
    . . [etc, etc,]

    I never know who the other guy is - who I'm dealing with. Seems stupid to escalate a situation from 'social' posturing into asocial violence without considering the risks of totally loosin' it. I'm not going to put my life on the line just to prove who has the most testosterone. I'll defend my life with extreme prejudice should the need arise -otherwise I'm not engaging.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

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    walk away, if you can.If not, all bets are off, do what you have to do. But remember there always consequences for every act.
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    intersting responses...to the best of my knowledge most of the threads the op refers to have been where avoidance was as easy as driving away or staying behind a closed door...

    great thread...and again...interesting responses...

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Most people looking for a fight either have no idea what they are really looking for because most 'fights' are social hierarchy BS taken to a physical level. People who fight probably don't want to kill the person they are fighting with - just put them in their place.

    I have no account with those people, so long as they don't blunder into a situation were that idea of how to effect social dominance runs into my idea of a threat.

    RE: Proxy warfare...read "The Prince" & "How to win friends and influnece people"

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    I agree completely that the best option is to do your best to avoid the fight if at all possible. Sometimes the ONLY option is to fight, if and when you get there, fight with everything you have. Don't fight fair, aim to kill. Sometimes that is the only thing that will work.
    Become good at letting what others say roll off un-noticed, words are not worth a fight. Let people say what they will, the vast majority will stop at words. For those who force you into the fight...Become their worst nightmare.
    Last edited by sigmanluke; November 30th, 2010 at 01:14 PM. Reason: more
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    “ The art of war” is a very interesting read. For some Chinese companies its required reading.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The question is so general in nature, that only answers that are general in nature can be given.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    I frequently remind myself that:
    [1] I'm not the only person that carries a gun, or other deadly weapon;
    [2] Many people are on prescription drugs that alter their 'good judgement';
    [3] Many people are on illicit drugs that alter their 'good judgement';
    [4] Many violent criminals have been released into the general population by the judicial system;
    [5] Many impaired individuals have been released into the general population by 'mental' institutions;
    . . [etc, etc,]

    I never know who the other guy is - who I'm dealing with. Seems stupid to escalate a situation from 'social' posturing into asocial violence without considering the risks of totally loosin' it. I'm not going to put my life on the line just to prove who has the most testosterone. I'll defend my life with extreme prejudice should the need arise -otherwise I'm not engaging.
    Very sound reasoning. Avoid the fight at all costs.

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    Senior Member Array Zsnake's Avatar
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    "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."
    ~~Sun Tzu
    OH YEAH? says WHO?

    I have won every single fight I have ever had!



    Come to think of it, I've never been in a fight!
    (sigh) Such is war.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    When to stand and fight, is when it is determined to be the least detrimental action.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    One question I like to ask for any of these scenerios is: If you didn't have a gun, would you have the same response? Too many, I feel, become involved or react a certain way only because they are armed, rather than using the firearm as a last resort.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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