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The CCW Killers ??? Violence Policy Center Attacks those who carry concealed- link

4K views 54 replies 39 participants last post by  jumpwing 
#1 ·
The Gun Control Advocates at the infamous Violence Policy Institute have created a website designed to make CCW permit holders look like dangerous and unstable individuals. This is part of their campaign to put an end to the right of people to carry handguns concealed.

Do you think that they will be successful, using this sort of scare tactics on the general public?

Here is a link to their website all about those very dangerous

Concealed Carry Weapons Killers:

http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm


.
 
#3 ·
Here's from the "Private citizens killed by CCW permit holders" section:

On February 27, 2010, a 10-year-old boy unintentionally shot and killed his older brother, Randy Reddick III, age 11, with his father’s 40-caliber Glock pistol.
The father had the CCW permit, but his crime was to leave the gun in an unlocked console in his truck. So why is this in the list? The rest are cases of failure to follow the rules of safety (i.e., idiots), domestic love triangles, disputes escalated, bar fights, etc. The main thing, though, is that they seem to have cherry-picked this collection and only came up with 267 incidents.

Here in Florida alone, we have around 650,000 permit holders. Add in all those from other states and you get a percentage here that shows that CCW permit holders are among the most law-abiding people in the nation. Be interesting to the see the number of "Private citizens killed by non CCW permit holders."
 
#4 ·
Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics. Ok, as sad as it is, 9 Law Enforcement Officers Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders (assuming the count is correct). How many LEOs were killed by BG, "Friendly Fire", and non-Concealed Handgun Permit Holders, how many Concealed Permit Holders are there, how many guns are out there, etc.

Until placed in context, the 9 count and the others are just numbers. And when I look at their home page I find The Huffington Post referenced - that tells me a lot.
 
#5 ·
Did you notice that they only reproted the "numerator?" What is the denominator; how many people inthe US have CCWP's? As an Emergency Physician, I have some pretty strong feelings about guns. I thinkit is important to tell the whole truth; not like a pharmaceutical company advert. E.g. "Lipitor reduces heart attack and stroke risk by 33%" Yeah, from 3 percent to 2 percent absolute. That means that ony one person per hundred gets any benefit from taking it every day for 3 years. What are the absolute percentages of deaths per 100,000 CCWP's??
 
#10 ·
Did you notice that they only reported the "numerator?" What is the denominator; how many people in the US have CCWP's? As an Emergency Physician, I have some pretty strong feelings about guns. I think it is important to tell the whole truth; not like a pharmaceutical company advert. E.g. "Lipitor reduces heart attack and stroke risk by 33%" Yeah, from 3 percent to 2 percent absolute. That means that only one person per hundred gets any benefit from taking it every day for 3 years. What are the absolute percentages of deaths per 100,000 CCWP's??
You've all hit the points I would make. It will be important for defensive carriers to put this kind of "information"? into proper context and perspective when discussing it with non-CCW people.

Accurate, complete and source-verified information is difficult to obtain on just about everything (politics and religion included!!).


^^^^^^^^^Here is a good place to start^^^^^^^^^^^^


http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1743

United States Bureau of Justice


Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2007 - Statistical Tables


The VPC is most definitely an anti-firearms organization, designed to eliminate guns.

Notice they have very little if any INFORMATION on "other" kinds of Violence, in America, other than Firearms, here at their home page.

http://www.vpc.org/index.htm

IF they were truly 'all about" violence, all violence in this country, wouldn't they submit information pertaining to those types as well.???

About the only way to possibly find out is to go to your state police website and look in there to find individual stats,

Here is Michigans, http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html

And once there you click on CCW reports;

or Here;;http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/CPL_Annual_Report_2008-2009_307251_7.pdf

and once there it will show the amount of license holders who got into trouble, and for what reason.


License's revoked 353, for June 2008 to June 2009
Carried in Pistol Free Zone: 1
Failure to Disclose (2nd Offense): 0
Carried Under Influence: 14
Felony or Misdemeanor Charge: 210
Other: 128

They are buffoons, and idiots, as are all of these organizations.


These morons and their ilk really rub my rhubarb the wrong way.

All we can hope for is that the truth will prevail!!!!!





*"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end**.**" Author Unknown


Liberals are like Slinkies…Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
- Sir Winston Churchill


“What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia


Get the facts first. You can distort them later. Mark Twain

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. Mark Twain
 
#6 ·
You've all hit the points I would make. It will be important for defensive carriers to put this kind of "information"? into proper context and perspective when discussing it with non-CCW people.

Accurate, complete and source-verified information is difficult to obtain on just about everything (politics and religion included!!).
 
#8 ·
Scare tactics work. Sowing fear works. These are well tried and true strategies, as are also telling of whopper-lies, making up incidents, omitting story details, linking two unrelated events and then stating an inference from them which can't logically be derived.
 
#35 ·
This is a true statement. The only way to counter these fear tactics is by educating the public to the TRUTH; and exposing the public to people around them that CC. That means if you CC, you need to talk to your friends and family about CC.

IMHO; If you CC and are NOT willing to help educate your family and friends, or you're not willing to talk to others about CC, you may as well be a member of the "Brady Bunch!"
 
#26 ·
Absolutely. Look at it from another view. Fanatical nuts rejecting logic and reason. They use lies and misinformation to sow fear and employ scare tactics as weapons. What do we call that these days? Oh right... TERRORISM!



Scare tactics work. Sowing fear works. These are well tried and true strategies, as are also telling of whopper-lies, making up incidents, omitting story details, linking two unrelated events and then stating an inference from them which can't logically be derived.
 
#13 ·
276? Isn't that like 0.000001% of the US population? And maybe 0.0001% of those who have CWP's in the US? And something like 0.001% of violent crime committed in the US? Sounds like pretty good stats for us.
 
#15 ·
It would be interesting to understand the reason(s) behind their agenda. They have to know what they are doing.

Getting a CCW does not make a person more likely to commit violent crime (duh). If anything, the argument can be made that getting a CCW actually influences someone to be more law abiding. But this is all piddly. The facts are that, statistically speaking, CCW'ers are far, far, far more likely to be upstanding, law-abiding citizens.

We see people conniving, sensationalizing, and lying all the time for various reasons.

When people do this about guns it is in a different class for me because:
- They are trying to deprive people of their natural right of self defense
- Gun control kills people
- They know this

This makes them actively evil in my view.

Some people that favor gun control are just ignorant of the facts. These people are not.
 
#16 ·
DoctorBob is on the right path.

If you looked at the total number of gun crimes committed by CCW holders in the US versus the entire adult population, the percentage is so low that it is probably statistically insignificant.

Using the Left's own warped cause-and-effect belief system, we permit holders cause so little crime, we should REQUIRE every adult in the US to get a carry permit, that way the violent crime rate would go down.
 
#22 ·
The numbers presented for Michigan seem too high if you compare them with the Texas numbers. Not saying Texans are better, just that we have a much larger population, a much larger % of which likely hold CHLs, and our CHL holders appear from Texas official DPS stats to be a remarkably law abiding group--- which is what you'd expect from folks who willingly submit 10 finger prints, and allow the state to do whatever it likes for a background check; including look at medical records. ( I doubt they do except in unusual situations, but you do sign that little line on the application).

I do wish there were a way to get solid information on something as follows: starting with folks who have clean records but who choose to car carry sans CHL, what are the comparative conviction rates? It is an important question because it goes to the heart of the training requirement and whether or not that is really needed. It also goes to the issue of whether or not the background check is really needed.

Anyway, there is no way anyone can lay criminality or dangerousness at the feet of the most non-criminal segment of society--the CHL holder.

Oh, just saw this from another post in this thread: "Another factor in looking at their numbers is that they cover at least a three year period. " That would explain the higher proportion in MI v TX. More slight of hand by those who don't care to understand that in most places you can't get a CHL without being checked out.
 
#17 ·
Maybe they should look at vehicular crimes committed by licensed drivers. These would include, but not limited to, speeding, reckless driving, DUI, vehicular homicide, failure to yield right of way, etc.

Perhaps we should press for removing everyones drivers licenses, since a vehicle is a dangerous weapon, in the wrong hands. While we're at it let's push for mandatory background checks before buying a car, and a 7 day waiting period too.
 
#18 ·
I'm not technically savvy enough to develop it but I would like to see a site similar to this but with all the data everyone else is mentioning - tally of how many lives saved or crimes prevented. The NRA would have less work on their hands if citizens were more informed. It seems the only people in the know about the benefits of guns are those like everyone here. It's the uninformed that ruin it for everyone. The nay sayers do a pretty good job of marketing their opinions, I wish I was more capable of marketing the the pros.
 
#19 ·
Another factor in looking at their numbers is that they cover at least a three year period. So converting those numbers into xxx per 100,000 or any other percentage is becoming a really small number.

I worked out some of this a month or so ago on another forum that discussed this POS site, and the percentage of CWP holders involved was so close to 0 it's almost not worth getting lathered up about. Just let VPC cry in their corner.
 
#21 ·
What a bunch crap. Granted, we have to under go training and LE checks to get the license, but that doesn't mean their aren't a few bad apples in the bunch. And that's what they are focusing on. They need to post the info on crimes that have been prevented and lives that have been saved because of CCW holders.
 
#23 ·
Here's my take on the numbers, from a Sept. posting I made on another forum.

You really have to look at the "numbers" put forth by VPC. They add them up in various ways to make it look worse than it is.

Going by their incident by incident vignettes, there were 118 incidents, that is, 118 shooters in the covered period. If we take the total number of permits at 6 million, that works out to less than .002% of permit holders killed people. Wait, that's over a three year period, so annually less than .00066% of permit holders kill someone feloniously.

That 6 million permit holders make up about 1.9% of the total US population. Given the number of firearm murders annually (around 12,000), that means about .004% of the total population are killers who use guns, annually. Permit holders who kill are just .000013% of the total population.
 
#24 ·
so I went to their website and in the upper right hand corner is a button that says "looking for something". I typed in "The truth" and hit Go...............I was redirected to a site that is "Powered by Atomz" and has a list of VPC websites...............apparently they couldn't find the truth
 
#25 ·
I found this little gem, which the ding-bats at VPC seem to ignore all together, which stands to reason as it doesn't help their cause?

Doctors Kill More People
Than Guns and Traffic Accidents Combined


The top five causes of death in the United States, in order, are tobacco, alcohol, medical malpractice, traffic and firearms. According to JAMA, doctors kill more people than auto accidents and guns. With that in mind, one has to wonder why gun control is such a hot legislative issue when, perhaps, we should be more concerned about doctor control.

The number of people that doctors kill per day from medical malpractice is roughly equal to the amount of people that would die if every day, three jumbo jets crashed and killed everybody on board, commented Dr. Welch who added, in defense of his own profession, just imagine what headlines would result if a chiropractor or a naturopath accidentally killed just one patient?
 
#27 ·
What is concerning is that it will not take long for the major media companies to pick this up and only report what VPC has stated without giving the whole story behind the numbers. That is where the battle is, on the boob tube and in the papers. Too many people do not look at news/reports with a critical eye as to who is reporting it and what is the motive. Times are changing, but there are still many who do not research.

All this info that is easy to get and people are still too lazy to search for the truth.

Prime example is the DOJ crime stats. This year they changed how things were grouped and told everybody crime was down. Crime was down on the coasts in the big city's and that skewed the numbers. Remove the coasts (LA, NYC, ...) and crime is up. The question is why is crime down in these areas.

Didnt mean to hijack the thread, sorry. Rant off.
 
#31 · (Edited)
we can't ignore them, as stupid as they are, the general public can be just as stupid. After all, the public got bamboozled into electing the village idiot President. So it's not to far of a jump to convince the public that a firearm is not a tool, but a mystical beast that will ruin an entire nation.

And someone made an excellent point. If it's "THE VIOLENCE POLICY CENTER" why do they focus on just guns. Not one mention of violence against women. Not one mention of child abuse? None of them are talking about Rape, Robbery or gangs.

Their only answer to all questions is: remove all guns from legally responsible people, and the world will be as one. There will be Peace and love throughout the universe. IDIOTS !!!!
 
#34 ·
When bad CCW holder killings exceed the number of Influenza deaths per year, I may start paying attention.
 
#36 ·
I replied to them with a well thought-out and organized response questioning their information and sharing some of the insights I've received from this sight. If only one person there, the person who reads my email, considers one or two of the points I made and thinks, "Well, he makes a good point there," then maybe that one person will understand their on the wrong side of the fence. A long shot? Sure. But sitting around on this forum and agreeing with each other does nothing except boost our own egos for our own intellegence. Write them. Explain why their wrong. Don't lambast - explain our position. Thank them for what they are trying to do, but let them know they are going about it the wrong way and with the wrong information. Dialogue! Some will never get it - I know that. But wouldn't one convert in an organization be worth a shot? Just thinkin'.
 
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