The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense.

This is a discussion on The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; [IMG]c:\users\connell\pictures\my arsenal\my arnsenal001[/IMG]...

Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 4101112131415 LastLast
Results 196 to 210 of 216
Like Tree15Likes

Thread: The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense.

  1. #196
    Member Array Walk Soft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    262
    [IMG]c:\users\connell\pictures\my arsenal\my arnsenal001[/IMG]

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #197
    Member Array Backnblack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    285
    Quote Originally Posted by Walk Soft View Post
    [IMG]c:\users\connell\pictures\my arsenal\my arnsenal001[/IMG]
    You can't link to your local PC

    HTC Thunderbolt....4G Lightning Speed

  4. #198
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    186
    If you are not a country boy you might find this distasteful. That is fine, but I don't care to hear from you how cruel I (and others who take upon themselves this responsibility) are. Thank you.

    I had occasion to put an old family friend down. It was time...she'd been with us for 14 years, was very old, tired and very sick when the family and I decided to let her rest easy. I took her out to her favorite spot when she was younger and could still get around...in the middle of a 1000 acre wheat field, I petted her head for the last time while she looked out over the horizon as she had done since she was a pup...I stepped behind her with my .380 and squeezed a round off in the back of her head...a direct hit, perfect bullet placement and she turned and looked at me!! A double tap to her head followed and though she laid down, gurgling on blood, she continued to breath a heavy breath, her eyes looking up at me...I had my .357 in a shoulder holster, I drew it and finished the scene with a single shot that let her rest. Living as I do, where I do I have had the unenviable task of putting down animals from time to time and this was the worst experience I have ever had with it. I've never used a .380 before and never again. Blazer aluminum case FMJ .380 were not enough for Sally...she was a tough old dog, but not an enraged man with an adrenaline dump going on... I have spoken on this forum and others in support of the .380...I retract those statements.

  5. #199
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,048
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    If you are not a country boy you might find this distasteful. That is fine, but I don't care to hear from you how cruel I (and others who take upon themselves this responsibility) are. Thank you.

    I had occasion to put an old family friend down. It was time...she'd been with us for 14 years, was very old, tired and very sick when the family and I decided to let her rest easy. I took her out to her favorite spot when she was younger and could still get around...in the middle of a 1000 acre wheat field, I petted her head for the last time while she looked out over the horizon as she had done since she was a pup...I stepped behind her with my .380 and squeezed a round off in the back of her head...a direct hit, perfect bullet placement and she turned and looked at me!! A double tap to her head followed and though she laid down, gurgling on blood, she continued to breath a heavy breath, her eyes looking up at me...I had my .357 in a shoulder holster, I drew it and finished the scene with a single shot that let her rest. Living as I do, where I do I have had the unenviable task of putting down animals from time to time and this was the worst experience I have ever had with it. I've never used a .380 before and never again. Blazer aluminum case FMJ .380 were not enough for Sally...she was a tough old dog, but not an enraged man with an adrenaline dump going on... I have spoken on this forum and others in support of the .380...I retract those statements.
    I'm sorry, that would be difficult to experience.

    I hope you don't mind if I explore the point a bit further. When we talk about penetration into ballistic gel, according to my understanding of the FBI standard, the reason they want 12+ inches (12 inches being considered the absolute minimum), is because ballistic gel doesn't have bones. If you hit a bone (and the human torso has a bunch of them, specifically designed to protect the squishy insides), you need that bullet to break through that bone and have enough energy to continue doing damage. Then, what happens if your assailant has his hands in front of him? Suddenly you're shooting through hand and arm before you get to torso.

    The .380 only pulls this off in FMJ, and just barely at that. That's an awfully little hole, and if you have hollowpoint ammo, you get a bigger, very shallow hole.

    I have said that the .380 is better than nothing. So is a sharp stick, and I have never compared the .380 with a sharp stick

  6. #200
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Longview, TX
    Posts
    932
    Quote Originally Posted by EOD Man View Post
    There are lots of good points in this thread. Some I agree with and some not so much but hey, we are entitled to our opinion...

    Always remember....the most important weapon anyone has sits on their shoulders. I don't intend on going into the bad part of town packing my PM9, LCR, 686, or my HK USP 40. Be vigilant and aware of your surroundings....by doing that there is a high probability you will never have to employ your weapon of choice in a SD situation. YES...I know that doesn't mean you can't encounter a bad guy in the nicer parts of your city. Just something to think about.
    +110% !!

    FWIW, about 15 years ago one of my sons (early 20's at the time) was showing a friend a deringer he'd recently purchased in .32ACP. The friend was holding it and there was an unplanned discharge when he "accidentally" pulled the trigger. The little .32 went through the wall of my son's bedroom then out the wall of the living room and lodged over an inch in the back of a leather covered chair. Luckily, there was nobody in the living room and nobody was injured. Still, that .32ACP did a PRETTY good job of penetrating those two walls and punched a good hole in the chair. I can only imagine what would have happened if it had been someone's head or chest and the caliber had been a .380 instead of .32!
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  7. #201
    Member Array marksz71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    34
    As many have mentioned in this and many othe posts, any firearm is better than none in a SD situation. I don't have many problems with the .380, and I know it can stop a threat. I do however, believe it should be considered the minimum as others have stated as well...my opinion. Aside from the BB rounds, which I plan to look into for myself, I do have concerns about penatration and it relates to hunting as well. If you are using a hollow point bullet with a standard SD .380 round, will it penetrate through heavy clothing. That would be my concern. If it is a tshirt...no problem, but a heavy jacket or leather? Should conisideration be given to NOT loading a .380 with hollow points? What about ballistic tips, will that help with penetration through heavier clothing? My wife shoots a .380 and it most comfortable with a .380 with smaller SD type weapons; however, I am trying to work her into practicing with .380 and carrying 9mm. In addition, I typically only carry .380 as a backup, or when I am wearing light clothing that does not facilitate good concealment for a larger frame such as my Kimber Tactical Ultra. Mark
    Mark
    Active Duty Air Force
    Federal Firearms Licensed Dealer - marchellearms.com
    NRA Life Member
    Concealed Carry Permit Holder

  8. #202
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Augusta,Maine
    Posts
    1,555
    I got into a conversation with a friend who both of us carry 308 as bug and primarys when it's hot out. There's been such an improvement in ammunition technology and what
    we now have avalible to purchase it still come down to hitting the target.Like previous poster said about the pellet rifle I purchased one to get rid of the varmit around the house but
    it's almost as loud as my 22 rifles.

  9. #203
    Senior Member Array crue2009's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    792
    the.380 is ineffective untill you get shot with one
    gottabkiddin likes this.

  10. #204
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    618
    I'm with BG380 on this one. I too carry a Bodyguard 380 on hot days. My idea is most will be wearing lighter clothing and that 380 will drill right though that shirt and cause some damage. But on the other hand winter months with heavier clothing its my .40
    One more step and it's on!

  11. #205
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    6,954
    Quote Originally Posted by crue2009 View Post
    the.380 is ineffective untill you get shot with one
    I like that.... Kinda simply says it all IMO.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  12. #206
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    1,146
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    I had occasion to put an old family friend down. It was time...she'd been with us for 14 years, was very old, tired and very sick when the family and I decided to let her rest easy. I took her out to her favorite spot when she was younger and could still get around...in the middle of a 1000 acre wheat field, I petted her head for the last time while she looked out over the horizon as she had done since she was a pup...I stepped behind her with my .380 and squeezed a round off in the back of her head...a direct hit, perfect bullet placement and she turned and looked at me!! A double tap to her head followed and though she laid down, gurgling on blood, she continued to breath a heavy breath, her eyes looking up at me...I had my .357 in a shoulder holster, I drew it and finished the scene with a single shot that let her rest. Living as I do, where I do I have had the unenviable task of putting down animals from time to time and this was the worst experience I have ever had with it. I've never used a .380 before and never again..
    I have to admit being surprised to hear that a .380 didn't penetrate her skull. Do you remember if it was a hollow point or a FMJ? Also, are dogs skulls known to be thicker than human skulls? I would have been willing to bet a .22LR would have been sufficient for this task, I'm shocked that a much larger round failed.

  13. #207
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I have to admit being surprised to hear that a .380 didn't penetrate her skull. Do you remember if it was a hollow point or a FMJ? Also, are dogs skulls known to be thicker than human skulls? I would have been willing to bet a .22LR would have been sufficient for this task, I'm shocked that a much larger round failed.
    It was a FMJ...and I actually shot her with 3, yes THREE rounds...before I drew my .357 to end the madness... I have put down animals making the same shot to the same spot with 22lr and never had a failure like this...I don't what the deal is/was on dogs skull thickness, but I do know that I witnessed, from my own hand, 3 .380 rounds to the head not finish a 90 pound dog...I didn't inspect the wounds, but there was plenty of blood so I assume that they (or at least some rounds) penetrated the skull...I am not saying I will get rid of my .380, I am not even saying I won't carry it as a BUG..., but what I am saying is that my trust in this weapon as being "adequate" to stop some adrenaline pumped up, high on crack goof ball has been sorely shaken. Sometimes there is nothing , NOTHING that can make you think like reality!

  14. #208
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by crue2009 View Post
    the.380 is ineffective untill you get shot with one
    I'm not worried about getting shot with one...I'm worried about trying to stop a crazed man coming at me my wife and family, and having the rounds be "ineffective" in stopping him before he has caused me or a loved one harm...

    If one HAD to be shot, and had the choice of weapon to take a single round from and one could choose from a .380, a .357, a parabellum 9mm, or a .45...which would you choose? Now, if one had a CHOICE of what round to send down range, what choice would one make from the same list above?

    I don't want to be bit by a tick either, but that doesn't mean it's the best, or even an effective self defense weapon...

  15. #209
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    6,954
    What's really jacked up about all this is simply this, shot placement gets overshadowed by the caliber thingy..... Regardless of caliber a .22 to the heart will stop anyone regardless of their madness or drug induced crazy rampage. I have way to many .380s and a couple of nines as well as .40 and .45's, but the fact is a simple one for me.... Put just about any round in the right spot and the BG will drop into a heap bottom line. What we as operators have to figure out is, which one is right for us as an individual shooter, one that allows us to shot to point of aim consistently and effectively. Save the BBQ rig for the BBQ, and carry what you know and have confidence in regardless of the caliber. My choice for a defense gun has moved up to the .38 revolver over the .380 auto, not due to caliber but for the reliability of the platform. As always, YMMV
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  16. #210
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    186
    Shot placement is of course paramount...but ask anyone who has been in the situation and they will tell you that while practice can improve shot placement, unless your target is static, and you have training...extensive training...in controlling all the chemical dumps that happen in the body under a true life or death stress situation ( tunnel vision,shaking,loss of ability to breath smoothly, change in perception of time, etc..,), you will find that "shot placement", especially when your practice has been at paper targets at a controlled range, is tenuous at best. "Degradation of Performance Understress" is a fact that has been well known in scientific circles for centuries...look at folks who, for a living, practice and train in shot placement as part of their job..they don't even have to buy their practice ammo...they shoot and practice and practice and train...yet statistics prove time and time again that when police are put in a position to fire upon someone, they miss ! The hit probability for a NYPD officer in the year 2000 (latest data available) was 9% YES!!! 9%!!!! (Data based on study of NYPD ) These are guys who work relentlessly on shot placement. So, my point is we may think we can control shot placement but there are many,many variables that play into 'hitting what we point at'. We really can not control those variables. We can control caliber. Knowing these facts to be true, I'd rather be firing a weapon that if I do miss my mark, the perp will still know he has been hit and hit hard.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Double Tap 380ACP vs. PDX1 or Critical Defense?
    By dbramhall in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: March 18th, 2011, 11:26 AM
  2. 10mm Personal Defense?
    By AZ Husker in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: February 7th, 2011, 03:00 AM
  3. Personal defense
    By nytestalker in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: April 6th, 2009, 08:19 PM
  4. Personal Defense TV
    By nextlevelcell in forum Defensive Books, Video & References
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: November 27th, 2008, 11:02 PM
  5. personal defense ammo for .357 sig ?
    By Shizzlemah in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: April 8th, 2007, 11:58 AM

Search tags for this page

.380 acp effectiveness
,

.380 acp for self defense

,

.380 effectiveness

,

.380 for self defense

,

380 acp effectiveness

,

380 acp for self defense

,

380 effectiveness

,

380 for self defense

,
effectiveness of .380 acp
,
effectiveness of 380 acp
,
is 380 acp enough
,
is the 380 acp effective
Click on a term to search for related topics.