The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense. - Page 15

The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense.

This is a discussion on The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom It was a FMJ...and I actually shot her with 3, yes THREE rounds...before I drew my .357 to end the madness... ...

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Thread: The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense.

  1. #211
    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboomkaboom View Post
    It was a FMJ...and I actually shot her with 3, yes THREE rounds...before I drew my .357 to end the madness... I have put down animals making the same shot to the same spot with 22lr and never had a failure like this...I don't what the deal is/was on dogs skull thickness, but I do know that I witnessed, from my own hand, 3 .380 rounds to the head not finish a 90 pound dog...I didn't inspect the wounds, but there was plenty of blood so I assume that they (or at least some rounds) penetrated the skull...I am not saying I will get rid of my .380, I am not even saying I won't carry it as a BUG..., but what I am saying is that my trust in this weapon as being "adequate" to stop some adrenaline pumped up, high on crack goof ball has been sorely shaken. Sometimes there is nothing , NOTHING that can make you think like reality!
    If I may; Why did you shoot your dog with a 380, when you were also carrying a 357?
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  2. #212
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    First, my condolences on having to put down your dog. That's an awful thing to have to go through.

    I did want to address a couple of points in the last few posts:

    First, a shot to the heart will not necessarily stop someone - at least, not before they can harm you. An off duty NYPD officer managed to shoot both of his attackers and wound them, despite an ultimately fatal hit to his own heart. Both suspects were arrested at the hospital. You have enough oxygen in your system to continue voluntary action for up to 20 seconds (possibly more) after a hit to the heart. The only way to instantly stop voluntary action is to disrupt the central nervous system (brain and/or spine), and that is hard to do under stress.

    Second - most folks on this forum practice MUCH more than the average LEO, especially in this era of budget cuts. I would not make too much of LEO (in)accuracy stats.

    Third - there are many, many failures to stop with all handgun calibers...even the vaunted .45 and .357 Mag. Just re-read the Officer Soulis shooting - perp absorbed 22 hits of .40, with 17 of them COM, before he was stopped. So, are we going to say the .40 is ineffective? How about the perp who took a whole cylinder of .357 Mag and killed an officer with a .22 that went through the arm hole of the officer's body armor? The drunk thug who took a whole mag of .45 and walked home (the defender survived because the drunk couldn't clear his jammed shotgun)? On and on it goes.

    The bottom line is that it is very difficult to stop a determined/drugged up/insane/drunk attacker with a handgun, of any caliber. Think about it - a handgun is just that...a firearm designed to be used with ONE hand. How powerful can it be? Not very. You want to stop someone - use a long gun. Not easy to carry around, though.
    The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all.

  3. #213
    Member Array kaboomkaboom's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinokrk View Post
    If I may; Why did you shoot your dog with a 380, when you were also carrying a 357?
    You may! I can't answer tho! At least not really...I basically just decided, even subconsciously maybe, to use it My .380 is my BUG and I had not fired it since I put a CTC Laser on that is the only thing I can think of other than I do remember thinking the .380 is about half as loud as the .357 and maybe it won't upset the family as much... previously when I've had this task, I've always used a .22LR ! But to be honest I can't point to a specific reason....Like I said...this was just something that happened...real life...and it shook my belief in the .380...I'm not trying to convince anyone else of the validity of what they carry...only trying to get my own head around the whole thing...
    rhinokrk likes this.

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  5. #214
    New Member Array Kenpo1965's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    I agree that .380 auto is enough for self defense. Wild Bill used the .36 cap and ball with great success. I am a believer in marksmanship and target placement before power and magic bullets. See the muzzle energy of the 1851 Navy that was used in the civil war, It's well below the modern .380 auto muzzle energy. Colt Model 1851 Navy Revolver

  6. #215
    Member Array mandalitten's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
    Newport, RI
    There has been a pretty high profile case in RI, involving the killing of a man with a .380. To make it short, the guys were neighbors, and probably not very good neighbors. The kids of one of them hit the neighbors (a former cop) car. He went over to their place and yelled/swore at the kids, and then went back to his place. Then the kids father come over to the cops house and enters the house (it doesn't appear that the door was locked or closed) and punches the cop before he turns around to leave. The cop then draws a .380 he is carrying and shoots him in the back and kills him. The person shot was 6' tall and 230#, so not exactly a small guy. And yes, you did read it correctly that he was a Providence cop shot someone in the back! He got 20 years in prison, and the appeal was un-successful. You cannot claim self defense when you shoot someone in the back.
    Pagano went to Gianquitti’s house and told him not to swear at his children; Gianquitti responded by cursing. Pagano punched him. Gianquitti drew the .380-caliber pistol he carried in a holster and shot Pagano in the back as he turned to run.

    Anthony Pagano, Pagano’s father, testified that Gianquitti then stood over his son with his gun drawn and said something that sounded like “I’ve gotcha now, Jim.” Gianquitti, a former Providence police officer turned stay-at-home dad, testified that the 6-foot-tall, 230-pound Pagano, barreled toward him, causing him to fear for his life.
    High court hears murderer’s appeal | Cranston | | The Providence Journal

  7. #216
    Member Array ConcealedG30's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    IMHO Bigger is better and ammo selection does make a difference. Shot placement is also important. It would be Awsome if there was a way to re-enact some of the scenarios metioned above with different caliber weapons, I don't think we have any volunteers. I will take a larger caliber weapon over a smaller one in just about any scenairo, however better a smaller caliber weapon than none at all. I carry a Ruger LCP as a back up/pocket gun, but I don't feel safe with it. I always carry a G30sf IWB and always feel secure no matter where I strut.

    Some is better than none .380 .38 9mm .45acp I always lean on my big toys

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