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Local establishment refusing to acknowledge ccw permit.

11K views 136 replies 63 participants last post by  Hotbrass 
#1 ·
So i was bowling last night with about 10 friends,and i have a fixed blade with about a 7" blade.Somebody needed to borrow a knife,so i let them have mine.The owner came up and plainly said "You cant have that thing in here." There are no signs outside prohibiting firearms or anything else of the like,so i explain to him.I go to get my permit out and he suggests i put it in my truck,or leave.

I was ccing that night as almost everyone with me is anti-carry.

So the question is,if your carry gun was seen and you were asked to leave,even though there is no sign prohibiting it,would you comply and get lectured by some anti-carry friends,or stand your ground on the basis of your right to carry and the fact that no sign is present preventing you from doing so?
 
#2 ·
Sign or not, if you stand your ground and refuse to leave you are then trespassing and that will then likely end up with you encountering a LEO.

Comply and leave and avoid a scene and looking unreasonable.
 
#5 ·
The establishment can write their own rules, so to speak. Most states give businesses a way out. Comply and patronize another business. There are enough businesses who want revenue, you should be able to find another place.
 
#7 ·
Even though signs carry no legal weight here in PA, if asked to leave, you better. Sign or no sign, it's willful trespassing at that point.
 
#8 ·
Personally I would just get a smaller knife yours is a bit of overkill.
 
#16 ·
Like everyone has said, it'll be trespassing because the owner/management have the right to ban most whatever they want on their premises.

I think Glocksin is taking too much liberty in thinking it is ok or normal to unsheath a 7" blade in a public place let alone a bowling alley and not expect to draw attention and possibly be removed.

Is a mall missing its ninja?
 
#9 ·
Basically your CC permit doesn't mean squat on private property. It is only good for keeping you from getting arrested for illegally carrying a concealed weapon. It only keeps the government out of your hair. The owner or manager tells you to leave or get the weapon out of their business, you comply or you become a criminal.
 
#11 ·
This sort of thread is a sore point with me. The fact that this issue crops up with some regularity is a pretty strong indication that
the requirements for classroom time and a written test make good sense.

I doubt there is anyone licensed in my state (well there is always someone who gets slips through) who has gone through the Texas CHL class that doesn't know exactly what signs must be obeyed and that the owner, proprietor, employee thereof, always has the right to ask a patron to not carry inside, and that refusal to leave is trespass.

I actually wish the law was a tad different. I wish that if you hold a CHL and keep it concealed, that it should not be anyone's business, and in a semi-public place like a store, I wish that the license should be honored by law. Basically, I wish it were like that because there are women, and more rarely men, who have more than the usual need to keep themselves armed even when buying books for example.

Anyway, it grates on me when this comes up because the law is pretty much the same all over--- private property owners can post, can ask you to leave etc., and that't that. The license pertains to your relationship with the state that issued it, and not your relationship with the owner of a business.
 
#12 ·
A lot of local businesses have a place page on the internet these days, and possibly a place to post reviews. That's where I'd go and voice my opinions if I were you. The business will find out sooner or later in an email that their reviews have been posted. In a way, it's mutual respect between customer, and business. Businesses should respect your rights, and likewise we should respect their wishes whether or not made specifically with a sign or announcement. We can always argue the facts or the confrontation after we've complied with the mutual respect ordeal at the scene. Making a scene over CCing is the last thing I'd ever want to do in a place of business. Still, things happen when we least expect them to. CC folks have a community of their own, and business owners also have a community of their own. We don't necessarily depend on each other, but there will be a common bond when it gets to the bottom line. This is where both come to a mutual acceptance after the mutual respect aspect has been taken care of.
Sign or not, if you stand your ground and refuse to leave you are then trespassing and that will then likely end up with you encountering a LEO.

Comply and leave and avoid a scene and looking unreasonable.
Reasonable...........that's what CC is all about. We're granted the right (I know........contradiction in terms)....under a reasonable assumption that we will be reasonable with our decisions while doing so. Any time you are dissatisfied or feel you've been singled out, there are many sensible tools available to make your point known. If you can't find a way to voice your opinion via internet, then do it by word of mouth. Word of mouth is still one of the best venues businesses either gain or loose patrons. Saturday nights at the bowling alley might never be the same. You might not make a strong impact in a presidential election, but you can make a strong impact close to home. I'm not telling you what you should have or shouldn't have done in your particular circumstance. Merely flagging doors in the hallway you can open at any time. Best of luck, and don't get easily dissuaded.
 
#13 ·
Beating a dead horse again.

Private businesses have all the rights that a homeowner has--including the right to allow or refuse weapons of any carry manner or type. A business may be open to the public, but it does NOT forfeit that right. To refuse to leave, regardless of lack of any sign banning carrying, is grounds to be arrested for trespass.
 
#14 ·
Its better just to leave and take your business elsewhere than to start an incident with the business owner...you don't want to get cited with a trespass and have to deal with LEO........

and although i carry regardless of some stupid sign (except places like schools, post offices, etc) the ONLY time i will ever pull out my CCW, even my knife is during a situation where my life is in danger and dont give a damn about what some sign or a business owner thinks!!!!
 
#65 ·
In this case I think I would first off consider carrying a less intimidating knife. I always have a keyring knife on my car keys so if somene needed to cut the string off a new pair of bowling shoe I wouldn't produce a 7" blade and give the owner anything to get worked up about. Back 50 years ago it was much more common for all men to be carrying a pocket knife and nobody had a problem with it. Now with the "politically correct additude" of this country someone is bound to freak over a huge knife like that.
Unfortunatly in Michigan, a CPL applies only to a pistol, and every city can enact their own knife laws. Generally though if it's less than 3" and non locking, non-self opening then you would be OK.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
( From an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term. )
 
#15 ·
So the question is,if your carry gun was seen and you were asked to leave,even though there is no sign prohibiting it,would you comply and get lectured by some anti-carry friends,or stand your ground on the basis of your right to carry and the fact that no sign is present preventing you from doing so?
Your "right to carry" ends at the front door of private property. Regardless of signage, when you were verbally notified, you were required to comply or face trespassing charges. The sign is just a warning. It doesn't prevent you, the owner/manager does. That's HIS right to not have weapons on his property.
 
#17 ·
Why would you want to stay in a place and give money to a place, that is so anti ?
 
#19 ·
Like others have said, if your trying to make a point after being told to leave an establishment for having a knife, gun or whatever, your clearly in the wrong. Unless you want a nice trip to jail, you leave the establishment with whatever weapon they want out of their place.

Oh and yea, I would consider a more appropriate knife for daily carry. You might want to visit Washington Arkansas sometime and see where the Bowie Knife originated. I don't live to far from there but still choose to carry a folding defensive knive in my pocket.
 
#28 ·
I can see why some one doesn't want a person flashing around a huge fixed blade, but you would object to someone carrying a firearm with a concealed carry?? I have to say...if you own a business you wouldn't have any of mine and if you are talking about your friends, I wouldn't be one of those either.. Being here I guess YOU carry concealed. I would not deny any friend from carrying concealed if they were permitted and I would also not expect any real friend to deny me the same.
 
#21 ·
When asked to leave by management...do so immediately!:yup: Armed trespass is not a good thing to stay around for the LEOs to discuss with you.:nono:
 
#22 ·
If a weapon is properly concealed no one is going to ask you to leave. Cause they just don't know. Hummm where have I heard that before?
 
#24 ·
Why would you want to stay in a place and give money to a place, that is so anti ?

Eagle no offense but what part of the OP makes this place anti gun? The OP pulls out a large fixed blade knife in the middle of a bowling alley, home to all sorts of people, and is told by the management he does not need to have it in there. He then attempts to show his license to carry a concealed handgun, which unless I am mistaken does not cover or have anything to do with carrying a Rambo blade, and they don't want to hear it. That is not being anti that is using common sense. This situation had nothing to do with carrying a firearm so the bowling alley can't be anti gun.
As has been said by so many board members so many times, concealed is concealed, you pull out a weapon in public and get noticed then complain when they ask you to take the weapon out of their building.

Just an opinion
 
#85 ·
Oh...... where to begin. Around here, there are so many people carrying knives on their hip... you would have to kick out one heck of a lot of people. Not all, but most people really wouldn't think that much of it. If someone ask them to leave.... yes, they would be seen as 'anti" ....... I don't believe I used the words "anti-gun"...... did I ? Need your glasses ? I think I can ask, given your sarcasism and acting like I"m an idiot, thus needed you to explain it to me.

If it's not an "illegal" knife, most around here wouldn't say a word. If they did, they are obvious against it ... thus "anti" you doing it..... and I would not want to stay and spend my money there .... which was my point. Why want to stay and spend your money at a place that doesn't want you there ?

What if they don't like my blue shirt, or the one that says VOTE FOR PALIN (LOL), or my Obama shirt, or ? If it's legal to wear, it's legal. If they don't want you there, don't support their business by spending money there. I wouldn't want to "stay" there and give them my money.
 
#25 ·
Most people who ask to borrow a knife aren't expecting to get a machete. You might want to invest in a decent folding knife with a 4 inch blade or smaller for those discrete situations where someone needs to borrow a knife in public. JMHO
 
#27 ·
I carry three knives on most days.

With that said, I don't give someone my "Heart Tickler" when they ask to borrow a knife. I give them the folding pocket knife that resides in my pocket for just such situtions. It looks innocent, but looks can be deceiving in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing. The "Heart Tickler" and it's companion, as well as the bullet luanching weapons stay hidden.

Now that we got that out of the way, I don't stay where I'm not wanted. If you don't want my guns and knives that means you don't want me there. FWIW: you would be hard pressed to find the weapons I carry on my person, as I do tend to keep things concealed. It creates less hassle that way.

Biker
 
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