Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network LLC

This is a discussion on Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network LLC within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I can move this from the "to-do list" over to the "Done" list. Thanks for bringing this service to my attention. The peace of mind ...

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Thread: Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network LLC

  1. #16
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    Array rigel42's Avatar
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    I can move this from the "to-do list" over to the "Done" list. Thanks for bringing this service to my attention. The peace of mind is really worth the $85 a year.

    What does my $85 membership fee buy me?

    • An initial $5,000 fee deposit paid to the member's attorney by the Network if the member has been involved in a self-defense incident. The fee deposit gets the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and arranging for an independent investigation of the incident.
    • Network members defending against unmeritirious prosecution or civil litigation after a self defense incident occuring during their period of membership are also eligible for additional grants of financial aid from the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Foundation, a separate non-profit foundation.
    • In addition, the Network is working to create a nationwide network of affiliated attorneys and legal experts upon which the member can draw in the event of a self-defense shooting. Members' attorneys can also request case review by one of the Network’s experts, paid for by the Network, with findings and advice forwarded to the member’s lawyer.

    Other membership benefits include:
    -DVDs by major players in the justifiable use of deadly force field sent each new member for their preliminary education; continuing educational DVDs are renewal premiums, with the 2009 DVD covering pre-assault indicators and how they influence the self defense decision-making process.
    -Access to the Network’s expert witnesses.
    -Discounts on books and videos sold on the Network’s web site.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    My wife just took a basic handgun class with a facility affiliated with the ACLDN...got her a 25% discount!
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array sjones's Avatar
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    I joined a group a couple of month's ago called the Texas LawShield.It cost me a $130.00.This sounds like a better deal.I think next time when My dues are expected again I will go with your group.Its cheaper for one thing,and it sounds like you have better coverage. sj

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Do these groups promise to be in business if/when you need them? They aren't exactly State Farm.

    When I buy insurance, I do the math. The likelihood I need the protection over the cost of the plan. Simple.

    Since an SD shooting is so unlikely for me and my lifestyle, I find it better to invest that money myself. If/when I need such a service, I'll happily pay for it.

    The reason they are not truly insurance is simple. Unlike fire insurance, you can get a "policy" after the "fire". I'd rather spend my money someplace else. If I need them, they'll work for my cash. I guarantee it.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I am a member. To date, no members have needed the services as far as I know.

    The best deal is that they offer "boots on the ground," meaning if you get into a situation, they will fly to you and help your legal defense.

    I don't know about you, but I sure like the idea of having heavy hitters like Masaad Ayoob available as expert witnesses.

    PS - I've personally spoken to Marty and Gila Hayes. They're the real deal.
    Agreed. That is the main reason I joined this year. However, I had to do the researching on my own using the "shooters bar" website to find a firearm/self-defense knowledgeable lawyer in my state. And just today, I had a personal consultation at the law firm today. Now I have their business cards, each located in my house, car, and my wallet. Even memorized the phone #s. All in a day's work today.

  7. #21
    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    ...The reason they are not truly insurance is simple. Unlike fire insurance, you can get a "policy" after the "fire"...
    Not sure if I understand you right, but as far as ACLDN, you can't join after your "fire" and expect them to come help you. You have to already be a member at the time of your 'event'.

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtxdpm View Post
    Not sure if I understand you right, but as far as ACLDN, you can't join after your "fire" and expect them to come help you. You have to already be a member at the time of your 'event'.
    Yes, to get exactly what they are "selling" if you need them. However, I would likely need to spend all the money I had left in the bank to defend myself in the event of a SD shooting, and a good defense attorney can find guys just like these witnesses for the defense. They'll know at least as much as anyone in this group. Plus, you have no guarantee a guy like Ayoob wouldn't have died or this company went bankrupt before you need them.

    Additionally, if I were a DA, I'd use this little data point as a sign you were looking to shoot someone.

    IANAL. My opinion only.

    Personally, many of the posters here are starting to creep me out: too many armchair pistoleros, Internet Tough Guys (ITGs), Charles Bronson wannabes, ersatz vigilantes, etc.

    This site is becoming less about defensive carry, and more about gun nuts waving their ccw in the face of every ne'er-do-well and minority street preson because:

    a) they might want to rob you
    b) they're up to no good
    c) I can't read minds, so I'll assume they're trying to kill me
    d) &c.

    There is a nice solid line between sensible concealed carry, and actually living your life planning to shoot someone - justified or not. I think several folks here have stepped over that line recently. Paying for "Killin' Insurance" is just one more step.

  9. #23
    Member Array gunshrink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Personally, many of the posters here are starting to creep me out: too many armchair pistoleros, Internet Tough Guys (ITGs), Charles Bronson wannabes, ersatz vigilantes, etc.

    This site is becoming less about defensive carry, and more about gun nuts waving their ccw in the face of every ne'er-do-well and minority street preson because:

    a) they might want to rob you
    b) they're up to no good
    c) I can't read minds, so I'll assume they're trying to kill me
    d) &c.

    There is a nice solid line between sensible concealed carry, and actually living your life planning to shoot someone - justified or not. I think several folks here have stepped over that line recently. Paying for "Killin' Insurance" is just one more step.
    Well, I can't speak for anyone other than myself and don't think I fit within the profile you have given.... that said, look at the people involved including Mas and Marty Hays - both are considered the "Cadillac" of experts on defensive shooting events. Mas is probably the top person in the country. Read the info on the people involved and I think you will find that "State Farm" does not have this knowledge base for a shooting that this organization does. Make your own choices as I do and as I tell my students - make intelligent choices but hoping that nothing will happen is not a strategy. As for being a "gun nut" if I mattered I could almost be insulted by that but that sort of line, but, too old to worry and hopefully thick skinned enough to know that our world revolves around differences of oppinion.

    Nuf said - have a good day.
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  10. #24
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunshrink View Post
    Read the info on the people involved and I think you will find that "State Farm" does not have this knowledge base for a shooting that this organization does.
    Let me help with your reading comprehension. I didn't mean to imply State Farm was better "insurance" for a SD shooting. I was simply pointing out the issue of corporate longevity. When you pay for any such "insurance", you need to be comfortable the company that took your money for so many years will actually be around when you need them.

  11. #25
    Member Array gunshrink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Let me help with your reading comprehension. I didn't mean to imply State Farm was better "insurance" for a SD shooting. I was simply pointing out the issue of corporate longevity. When you pay for any such "insurance", you need to be comfortable the company that took your money for so many years will actually be around when you need them.
    And around they will be - there are people involved in the organization that are creditable and will carry things long past when the founders are not there. Nothing wrong with my reading conprehension, maybe you should read the entire post and not just pick out one sentence that is there - I have been a State Farm customer for 38 years - car, home and business. Maybe you need to switch to decaf or read what you say before you post. Some of this is pretty disrespectful and insulting to many people. Maybe you are reading something the rest of us are not but most of the things I read on this forum are intelligent and respectful and responsible defensive firearm carriers. That might be a good thing for everyone here.

    BTW what's with that avatar you have there. Almost looks like a "gun nut??"

    Have a nice day MadMac (can I call you mad for short...)
    NRA Certified Instructor, MADFI Certified Instructor
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  12. #26
    Member Array TheSaiga308's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    There is a nice solid line between sensible concealed carry, and actually living your life planning to shoot someone - justified or not. I think several folks here have stepped over that line recently. Paying for "Killin' Insurance" is just one more step.

    Wait a minute, by this logic anyone who has fire insurance also lives his life trying to figure out a way to start a fire and someone who buys auto insurance lives his live trying to drive as recklessly as possible so he can cause an accident. If you use a seat belt that is even more evidence of this attitude.
    Make a lot of sense to me.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth keystone... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference."
    - GEORGE WASHINGTON

  13. #27
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSaiga308 View Post
    Wait a minute, by this logic anyone who has fire insurance also lives his life trying to figure out a way to start a fire and someone who buys auto insurance lives his live trying to drive as recklessly as possible so he can cause an accident. If you use a seat belt that is even more evidence of this attitude.
    Make a lot of sense to me.
    Yup - the same reason the law takes a long, hard look at the pretty young wife who takes out a million dollar life insurance policy on her husband a year before his untimely death.

  14. #28
    Member Array TheSaiga308's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Yup - the same reason the law takes a long, hard look at the pretty young wife who takes out a million dollar life insurance policy on her husband a year before his untimely death.
    You seem to have a very cynical viewpoint of people who are trying to look out for their own best interests. Aren't you trying to look out for your own best interests by making sure a company has enough resources to be viable when you need them? Nobody here is of the cynical view point that you are just selfish and don't want to contribute to a foundation that would benefit others too who may not have the cash flow to properly defend themselves if they found themselves in this situation. We know, realize and respect anyone who has their own best interests in mind and you might do well to do the same.

    Are you also of the opinion that crime and gun related violence would be non-existent if it just weren't for all the law abiding "gun nut" citizens? "Gun Nut" being your interpretation of anyone who prepares themselves to defend against violent assault. Anyone who reads case law will realize that there are many cases where citizens are charged and must stand trial even in scenarios where it seems clear that the situation was justifiable self-defense. Such knowledge of how the legal system handles these issues does not constitute paying for "Killin insurance" (your term) it demonstrates how the person is grounded in reality on how the legal system works today and knows therefore that it is very likely that he will need legal defense in such a scenario. A retainer fee for an attorney could range anywhere from $5,000 - $50,000 depending of the situation and not everyone has that kind of cash floating around.

    On a side note I think the ACLDN foundation has become viable already and I believe in the idea of this network.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth keystone... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference."
    - GEORGE WASHINGTON

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Yeah, this is something that we are going to invest in and soon. After reading the website and alot of the info on this thread and others (I'm at work, I'm bored.) I see that this is really something that all of us should invest in. I like the idea of experts helping my defense if I am involved in a self defense shooting.
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  16. #30
    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Let me help with your reading comprehension. I didn't mean to imply State Farm was better "insurance" for a SD shooting. I was simply pointing out the issue of corporate longevity. When you pay for any such "insurance", you need to be comfortable the company that took your money for so many years will actually be around when you need them.
    After your message on internet tough-guys, I was surprised to read your 'nastygram' to gunshrink. Doubt you'd be this rude in person... but then, sadly, maybe you would be. Seems to be the way more and more folks are today.

    As far as them not being around when you need them - if they go out of business, you don't pay the membership fee. It's not like your signing a lifetime contract. If they happen to go out of business early on after I renew, what am I out? The price of dinner at a mediocre restaurant? Besides, I would still have whatever new DVD they sent (which I find valuable) - so maybe I'd be out $50. Besides, they're doubling their membership every year since they began, they're not disappearing any time soon.

    Don't agree with your opinion that it's "killing insurance", but could see how an 'anti' or an uninformed juror might. In similar fashion, why take any firearm self-defense training classes? Some correctly point out that those who have taken the effort to train and become more proficient is good for themselves and innocent bystanders. Others would say your just training to kill people.

    I'm glad to have an organization like ACLDN available to help me find that 'good attorney', or at least to assist the attorney I find myself. I also appreciate having their educational materials to possibly help me avoid making a bad situation worse.

    (No, I don't work for them, just a satisfied member)

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