Sheep, Sheepdogs.... - Page 2

Sheep, Sheepdogs....

This is a discussion on Sheep, Sheepdogs.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by CenterOfMass The overall value of carrying should be directly proportional to the value one places on their loved ones lives. Well, I ...

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Thread: Sheep, Sheepdogs....

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenterOfMass View Post
    The overall value of carrying should be directly proportional to the value one places on their loved ones lives.
    Well, I haven't carried as much lately. My children are away at college, wife's been home with the dog. I've been at work (not allowed to carry). Firearms are readily available for home defense.

    The circumstances under which I both would, and legally could, use a concealed firearm, are so limited and of so low a probability (in MY opinion - the one that counts for me), that yes, I have decided to carry less.

    I believe in the 2A, I'm a dues paying member of the NRA, and I enjoy everything about shooting and guns. But, based on my set of experiences, that's where I'm at.
    Honor is self-esteem made visible in action. - Ayn Rand


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenterOfMass View Post
    The overall value of carrying should be directly proportional to the value one places on their loved ones lives.
    Unrelated to OP. Thread is about the willingness to jump in a foray on behalf of a stranger. Protecting your loved ones is SD, which is not the subject of the post. You are going beyond SD and becoming an active participant in a foray in which you or your family were not endangered. In fact you may very well be endangering your family by engaging in the action.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satori59 View Post
    Well, I haven't carried as much lately. My children are away at college, wife's been home with the dog. I've been at work (not allowed to carry). Firearms are readily available for home defense.

    The circumstances under which I both would, and legally could, use a concealed firearm, are so limited and of so low a probability (in MY opinion - the one that counts for me), that yes, I have decided to carry less.

    I believe in the 2A, I'm a dues paying member of the NRA, and I enjoy everything about shooting and guns. But, based on my set of experiences, that's where I'm at.
    Dude - I'm with you.

    If you don't have a defibrillator in your car, and have a serious heart attack there - you could DIE!

    If you get bitten by a particular poisonous snake, and do not have the proper anti-venom at the hospital - you could DIE!

    If you drive off an embankment and are stuck up side down in water without a satellite transponder - you could DIE!

    It's always a strawman argument with the gun pimps: If you don't carry 24/7 - you HATE your family, and are simply waiting for them to die in front of your eyes because you didn't carry your gun. You are scum.

    -------

    Let's get real. This is about personal risk management. For most of us, a gun only protects you and your family from death in a very narrow set of very rare circumstances. They are even more rare if you are not a criminal, gangbanger, drug dealer, or are overdue on a $250K loan from a mob shark.

    I am always forced to write a caveat, however: I am not saying you shouldn't carry. I am just stating your lifestyle has more influence on whether or not you will ever need your sidearm than anything else.

    You want to really protect your kids? Help them study in school, work your butt off to put them through a good college, help them avoid drugs and ne'er-do-well friends, and help them get a good career so they can live in a safe neighborhood, eat healthful foods, get a lot of exercise, and avoid trouble. That will do far more to extend the length and enjoyment of their lives than simply carrying around your gun. Look up the statistics if you don't believe me.
    Last edited by MadMac; December 15th, 2010 at 09:35 PM.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    You boys do what you think is best for you. This is still America and your rights are to be respected. In the past 40 plus years or so that I have been carrying off duty I have never had to use or even display my firearm. I am thankful for that. On duty is a different story because I am put into the places and around the people that present a higher risk for violence towards me. During that time I have seen what can happen to a person who was unprepared to confront violence. I will continue to carry off duty with the hope that I will never have to use my firearm but always aware of the fact that I may and the comfort of knowing that if needed it is there. Just my $.02.
    Last edited by Old School; December 16th, 2010 at 04:44 PM.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    You boys do what you think is best for you. This is still America and your rights are to be respected. In the past 40 plus years or so that I have been carrying off duty I have never had to use or even display my firearm. I am thankful for that. On duty is a different story because I am put into the places and around the people that present a higher risk for violence towards me. During that time I have seen what can happen to a person who was unprepared to confront violence. I will continue to carry off duty with the hope that I will never have to use my firearm but always aware of the fact that I may and the comfort of knowing that if it needed it is there. Just my $.02.
    Appreciate and respect your opinion, Old School.
    Honor is self-esteem made visible in action. - Ayn Rand

  6. #21
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    Patrol ... I'm with you. I'm here to protect me and mine. Thanks for doing your "on duty" job.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    I am NOT a "sheepdog". I'm not a LEO, I'm not a security guard, I'm not a vigilante or The Lone Ranger. I am not the street "judge and jury", but my gun carries the death sentence if needed. I carry a weapon for one reason only - to protect my family and me from harm. My one goal daily is to return home safely. I'm no good to my family dead or laying injured in the hospital. If I am inadvertently involved in someone elses situation, I will evaluate the threat TO ME and act accordingly. If that action just happens to help someone else, all well and good, but I am NOT my brother's keeper.

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    sorry...op is poor analogy...how many of you wander around waiting for an attack on your fellow man so you can defend them?...the armed sheep in the story are more like the police who patrol and protect...so somebody wrote a story that is supposed to shed some light on the whole sheepdog/sheep myth....have you heard the one where the cow jumps over the moon?...

    there has to be a better way to justify why you carry than stories that are so far out of touch with reality...otherwise you do more harm than good to your cause...

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    I dunno, I think it's pretty good. The armed sheep are protecting themselves, but by protecting themselves they have a helpful effect on those around them. They aren't really planning on protecting anyone, but by protecting themselves, it makes the wolves more wary of eating a sheep for fear that the sheep might fight back.

    Much like an armed citizenry, just because very few people actually go armed doesn't negate the effect on criminals. . . it's the fact that SOME are armed, and you don't really know who.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I will admit to having taken part in metaphoric ovine/canine discussions relating them to human behavior. Personally I find that they do not equate. Trying to equate the behavior of cognitive humans to various noncognitive animals seems ludicrous. While the idea of education through animal fables and the like may be admirable, I find direct behavioral comparisons unrealistic and objectionable.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I dunno, I think it's pretty good. The armed sheep are protecting themselves, but by protecting themselves they have a helpful effect on those around them. They aren't really planning on protecting anyone, but by protecting themselves, it makes the wolves more wary of eating a sheep for fear that the sheep might fight back.

    Much like an armed citizenry, just because very few people actually go armed doesn't negate the effect on criminals. . . it's the fact that SOME are armed, and you don't really know who.
    ok..i'll play...then maybe here lies the problem...and it can be found in mulitples on this forum if you look hard enough...

    "The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery"

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    ok..i'll play...then maybe here lies the problem...and it can be found in mulitples on this forum if you look hard enough...

    "The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery"
    I didn't say it was a perfect analogy, but it's also not useless <shrug>

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool



    Diversity in thinking.... ya gotta love it!
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    You boys do what you think is best for you. This is still America and your rights are to be respected. In the past 40 plus years or so that I have been carrying off duty I have never had to use or even display my firearm. I am thankful for that. On duty is a different story because I am put into the places and around the people that present a higher risk for violence towards me. During that time I have seen what can happen to a person who was unprepared to confront violence. I will continue to carry off duty with the hope that I will never have to use my firearm but always aware of the fact that I may and the comfort of knowing that if it needed it is there. Just my $.02.
    I think this kinda ties in to MadMac's comments about lifestyle affecting the need for a gun 24/7.

    Being a LEO, you have a higher risk of needing your gun at home, at the store, etc, because you are a LEO. BGs with a grudge are an occupational hazard.

    We all have to keep our SA up, but the chances of most of us being targeted is significantly lower.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Regardless of how accurately or not each of us thinks the story applies to us or our ideas, I found it entertaining, and without a doubt there are lessons we can learn from it. These stories are not about how animals think or anthropamorphising sheep and dogs, it is about making us think.

    If the story makes you evaluate where you stand and be more mentally aware of your own beliefs and how you fit into the picture, then it served its purpose. And sharing it with others might make them think if things that had never come to mind.

    Is the analogy perfect? No, but there is truth to be found in it.
    Walk softly ...

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