Dont call this lawyer!
This is a discussion on Dont call this lawyer! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think that's the real moral of this story . . . . Don't rely on a general criminal defense lawyer or the guys you ...
July 10th, 2006 10:42 PM
I think that's the real moral of this story . . . . Don't rely on a general criminal defense lawyer or the guys you see on TV that do DUIs, personal injury, and bankruptcy to save your hide! Most of those guys simply settle cases. They rely on volume and that's how they make the money to feed their advertising machine.
If you're facing several years in prison you need a guy with not only self-defense trial experience but preferably also specialized knowledge on carrying. A criminal defense attorney that routinely represents criminals accused of assault or murder works WAY different than an attorney that is trying to justify a shooting as self-defense. It really is apples and oranges.
While I recognize that the goal was to send out a mass e-mailing to all potential lawyers in the area, I think a more focused e-mailing would be more fruitful. If the attorney says he's never done a self-defense trial, I'd thank him for his time and move on. No sense paying him so you can be his test subject.
If you live in a rural area or smaller town, I'd go so far as to consult with a Big City Lawyer by phone. Your hometown lawyer may take your call and get you bailed out at 3 a.m. because he knows you, but the aftermath of a shooting is no time to interview lawyers and figure out who's going to represent you during police interviews, in plea negotiations, or at trial.
As for this thread, the responding attorney showed his lack of knowledge and awareness by his response. Run very far away.
July 10th, 2006 10:45 PM
Stand by Wolff man - BOHICA
corrective measures will be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
July 11th, 2006 12:50 AM
Tell the law firm you won't sue them for slander if the lawyer in question agrees to buy you a gun safe of your choice filled with the firearms of your choice....
"You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.
<----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)
July 11th, 2006 02:15 AM
1943 - 2009
Call My Lawyers
Dewey, Cheatem & Howe, Esq 1-888-555-3006.
Tell 'em I sent you.
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
July 11th, 2006 08:01 AM
Not under GA's "Operation Zero Tolerance."
Originally Posted by Phil Elmore
July 11th, 2006 11:31 AM
Hey I'm young! Does that mean that I can legally just say the first thing that comes to mind with no concern for the consequences or repurcussions. Can I walk around whatever facility I'm working in calling my patients wacko's. COOL! it must be nice to be able to go through life with no social or professional responsibility.
All the same though I think I'll continue to maintain professionalism no matter how I feel about my patients.
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
July 11th, 2006 11:38 AM
I wish to express my sincerest apologies and deep embarassment over my choice of words. Mr. Hayne and myself strive for exemplary legal work with the highest professionalism and what I stated certainly falls well short of that. I hope you will accept my apology.
Sincerely, Aaron Wolff
hmmm..... his boss did a lot better job of kissing ass. oh well, guess its just time to forget about the whole thing and just tell everyone i know not to use this guy. I did get a fantastic response from another law firm in WA though.... it reads as follows
You are wise to seek out a relationship with counsel *prior* to needing one. There's no real need to do anything to formalize it at this time, but I would offer the following suggestions:
1) If ever arrested, realize that you have consitutional rights for a
reason: use them. Do not make ANY statements to the police. They are not going to clear you or make it easier for you if you cooperate. If they've reached the stage of arresting you, they are gathering evidence to convict you, and you just save them the trouble by making statements which they can then use against you in ways that you never imagined.
2) Anytime a police officer asks you for consent (for example, to do some Field Sobriety tests, or to consent to a search, etc.) they are asking you because you have the right to refuse. Politely decline and say that you are doing so on the advise of counsel. The only exception is that you should take the breath test if you are arrested for drunk driving. The machines are notoriously easy to beat, I get results thrown out all the time, so you're better off taking it than suffering a one-year license suspension for refusal. But in all other cases, politely decline the request. If it's an order, follow it and try and remember the details so you can document it, but if it's a request, they're asking for permission and you have the right to decline.
3) If an intruder invades your home, you don't have a duty to retreat.
Still, you should always attempt a peaceful resolution whenever possible. But don't take any chances that will put you or your loved ones in harm's way.
4) In other situations outside the home, you have a much higher duty to avoid deadly force and can only employ it when you have a *reasonable* fear of *imminent* deadly force being applied to you (or your loved ones if coming to the defense of others).
5) If anything should ever happen and you are suspected, questioned, or arrested for a crime of any kind, give me a call at (425) 748-5005, or on my cell at (425) 894-6177 day or night.
Good luck, let's hope we never have to meet under such circumstances.
Law Office of Robert Perez
2018 156th Ave. N.E. Suite 100
Bellevue, WA 98007
(425) 748-5005 Voice
(425) 748-5007 Fax
Thats more what I was looking for
July 11th, 2006 11:50 AM
Oh, boy, this reminds me of something that happened when I was working in a tech support role, using phone and email. A very difficult customer was being very demanding without a good reason, but I forwarded his email to an account manager so she could get him a replacement part or something. In my email I said "Jennifer could you help this guy out, he's being a real d1c|<he@d." So she did a "reply all" to him without really reading my message.
Well, he wrote back to her and was not happy at all, but, God bless her, she took the heat from him and it did not escalate up the ladder. I learned an important lesson...to this day I never, ever say anything bad about someone in an email, because emails never go away completely.
In my defense, the customer WAS being a collossal *****.
July 11th, 2006 11:51 AM
Mr. Wolff is good for a story to tell at dinner parties and online.
You should run down to Mr. Perez's office and pick up a stack of his business cards...keep one in your wallet and throw a couple in the glove box of the car.
July 11th, 2006 11:51 AM
Looks like Mssr. Perez is your guy. Put his number in your cell phone and in your wallet on a piece of paper you can remove.
Forget about the other guy. I think it was already covered that you have no civil recourse against him. It was rude and unprofessional, but that is about it. They have lost your business and the business of others who you know. Call it good.
Mssr Wolff just demonstrated that you don't put anyting in email or on a forum you wouldn't want the world to know, because the world may eventually know.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
July 11th, 2006 12:14 PM
I think I'll run down to Mr. Perez's office after work today and grab some business cards like you said Zundfolge.
And your exactly right Scott...dont ever send an e-mail or put something in a forum u wouldnt want everyone to see.
How many people have looked at this thread?.....thats rights, a lot. I bet he doesnt realized hundreds of people are now going negatively regard the name Wolff, and hopefully atleast one person is saved from making the mistake of hiring this guy.
Maybe i'll send him a link to this thread if I reply. Probably be an eye opener as to the large number of people who will forever negatively regard him and his firm.
July 11th, 2006 03:15 PM
If you rather be cruel, send him a link where it shows how many CCW live in the state, all potential clients. Then let him know that, when these people do a Google or Yahoo search for his name, this thread will appear as a hit.
That should go like a ton of bricks down the gullet for him and his firm.
Or if you really wanna be cruel, don't tell him...let them find out the hard way.
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
July 11th, 2006 04:40 PM
Sounds Like Mr Perez Is the Guy i would go with
July 11th, 2006 05:54 PM
I tell you what, if I lived anywhere in the state of Washington I would have Mr. Perez's cards with me. I would also be passing them out to friends at the range and other whom you know carry. Maybe Bumper ought to put an attorney section in related links and as we learn who the good lawyers are we could post info for others to see.
I realize that good lawyers is an oxymoron, but I didn't want to take the time to spell out exactly what I meant.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein
July 11th, 2006 11:52 PM
As many of you know, I'm in the business . . .
I know a lot of you found some amusement in this, but in all seriousness, I don't think Steve Hayne could have given a better response. I think this should be acknowledged. And I thought Mr. Wolff's apology was nice as well.
The reality is that these two gents didn't have to do anything to address the unfortunate email reply. However, they chose to be professional and businesslike in an embarrassing situation, and I think that speaks very well of Mr. Hayne's firm. Accordingly, I would propose that the honorable thing to do would be to let the whole matter die, rather than smugly or self-righteously trying to rub anyone's nose in the mistake.
Mr. Perez' response was very nice, and speaks well of him.
Hope you all have a pleasant evening,
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