Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) who carries should read "In the Gravest Extreme."
This is a discussion on Massad Ayoob within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) who carries should read "In the Gravest Extreme."...
Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) who carries should read "In the Gravest Extreme."
God is love (1 John 4:8)
I've read several of Mr. Ayoob's books and files and they scared the heck out of me. Along with YouTube videos that show the same, his gunfight analyses really drove home the point that you can be faster, you can have .45 acp, you can plant several shots perfectly....and that bad guy may very well still keep coming....and die later....but not before he shoots you or others.
Mr Ayoob has convinced me better than anyone or anything that almost the last thing I ever want to do is have to use my gun in self-defense (to not consider it my only 'tool'). Because it will never ever turn out the way you think it will. The gun introduces so many other variables. This perspective makes me more careful, more observant, more willing to walk away from confrontation, plan & run scenarios, etc. And of course it does encourage me to train, train, train.
Thank you Mr. Ayoob.
Lady with a gun
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
If one was going to only take one class the MAG 40, formerly LFI 1, would be it. About 60% of the class will be in the classroom laying the foundation for articulating and justifying why, if you ever need to discharge your weapon in self defense, you actede in the manner in which you did. Mas' book, "In the Gravest Extreme" is the textbook for the class, and while it was written many years ago, it's as relevant today as it was then. The class goes beyond the book, in more ways than I can convey in a typed forum message.
I am also willing to bet that if you pay attention, and do the things he tells you to do on the range, unless you are a Master Class shooter, you will see a noticeable improvement in your shooting technique as well. I myself have always been a 90% or better shooter. His class took me from 90%-95% to 98%-99%. Because I was already shooting high scores my gains will be less than somebody that doesn't score as high, but the focus of the class will be about 60% in the classroom.
There are lots of members here that have taken classes with Mas. I don't think anyone will say that his stuff isn't up to par. Lots of people can teach you how to shoot, and there are really only so many ways one can do that and maintain any degree of proficiency, but knowing when and why is more important. I'm looking forward to taking MAG 80 in the future, as it's more tactical, and less classroom, but make no mistake, Mas knows his tactics and has sound reasoning for why he likes and uses the techniques he does. Even in my LFI 1 class I talked with him about shotgun retention techniques during a class break. He can be as tactical as any "Johnny Tactical" while not appearing to be so until the time for such is needed. Lots of instructors sell flash, Mas doesn't need to.
If it sounds like I am biased, you better believe it. I don't take everything he says as gospel, or copy everything he does, but more often than not I find him to be right.
I ordered two of his books from amazon.... in the greatest extreme, and the truth about self protection. Thanks for the help everyone. Bunker
I'm going to do MAG-40 next year, too, and ASAA Intermediate. This year I did the ASAA 3-day pre-req course, a 1 day Chuck Taylor seminar, and a 1 day ASAA clinic. I'm currently reading Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme", and it is very informative, and has all ready changed my thinking about more than one scenario.
Like it's been stated...If you're going to carry, it would be irresponsible NOT to bone up a bit on this stuff.
I grew up hunting and target shooting, been doing it longer than I can remember, but I figured those skills were a bit different that defensive handgunning. BOY WAS I RIGHT!
There's a distinct methodology and mindset involved that differs from sport shooting.
Listen to Mas, listen to Chuck. They know their stuff, big time.
Mas is one of the few guys out there that can back up what he says 100%, in the classroom and behind the sights......
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
Good but as with everything seemingly in life...some are worth the $$ some are not. Ive gone to these free of charge when on a SRT team and in the Military they were good...id probably have paid for them..but probably not as much as they want now days...im talking id pay $100-200(per day) for a class but thats about TOPS...and that better be a damn good class with a lot of stuff I dont know or is new to me not just a repeat of skills I already know...I could go drill on those by myself lol. Id pay about $500-600 for his 5 day class...$800(IMO) is a bit steep unless it includes a LOT of shooting(which it may) and the ammo price is included in the class then id pay the $800..guy(Ayoob) knows his stuff.
Has anyone here attended one of his classes recently?
I took LFI-1 in 2007 and I just took MAG-80 this past fall.
Mas's classroom material is always tied to the most current real world events, in large part because he is The Guy who gets called on to examine the aftermath of shootings and testify in court on behalf of the defender (when necessary). Yes, the books and videos can be a little dated, but the class most definitely is not.
Also, Castle Doctrine is irrelevant. The information conveyed is absolutely independent of whether or not you happen to be in a must-retreat or stand-your-ground situation. Mas's class is not about giving you some sort of "pre-fight" checklist to green-light your use of deadly force. The armed citizen is always expected to know his own local laws; the MAG-40 class will prepare you as well as anything to survive a gunfight if you end up in one and to prepare you for what might well happen to you afterward even if you do everything right from a legal, moral, and physical standpoint.
I personally think that MAG-40 should be about the first serious training stop for anybody who plans to carry a concealed weapon. You can do more detailed tactics and technique classes later, but nobody else provides quite the same foundation as Mas does.
“What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia
SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.
Does his class travel across the US or is it just available in Las Vegas? Bunker
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
There is a saying that you get what you pay for, with Ayoob even though his classes may be expensive to some you get more than your money's worth. I have read several of his books and watched an equal number of his videos. Ayoob is a retired Police Captain from New Hampshire and has completed at least one advanced class in firearms and Officer Safety at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, GA. I attended my basic school there in 1995 and there were still some instructors there who remembered him. He is top notch.
Cool, cant wait till he gets close to NYS.... would love to take a week off of work and learn something new. Cannot wait for the books to arrive... i got them off of amazon.com Bunker
Ayoob is a member here with the Forum Name Mas Ayoob though he only has about 5 or 6 past posts.
He will jump on to defend his honor & his good name if anybody attempts to defame his character or type any untrue falsehoods about him.
I have seen it happen in the past.