His book "In the Gravest Extreme" is a very valuable resource
This is a discussion on Massad Ayoob within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; His book "In the Gravest Extreme" is a very valuable resource...
His book "In the Gravest Extreme" is a very valuable resource
Well I guess that I have to spoil the smooch fest, but I think he is a bit overrated and is totally out to make a buck. I do think he has a ton of experience and knowledge, but I wont bow down like many others. If I were to listen to him, I would carry a different gun every month as he is pitching a different one in the latest gun rags all the time. He will forget more then I will ever know, but I think he has sold out from sponsors and manufacturers with the many reviews I have read.
This is meant as no disrespect as I feel I have given him props, but I would venture to guess that he is making way more money now then he used to.
Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!
Yep, he writes for a gun mag... and he reviews guns all the time... and likes most of them I'm sure... Heck, I'd find something good to say about any gun put in my hand, too... Some might be better than others, but as long as it puts lead downrange and gives you a chance against some BG, I'm all for it. And, If someone wants to pay me to say so... I'll gladly take the money.
If a course can be taught by someone who has BTDT (some folks can't teach), it certainly beats a course being taught by someone who; since they can't do it (or haven't done it), teach it. If Mas is as good a teacher as he is a writer, I'd be happy to take one of his courses, and proud to meet him, as well.
Now, I would not travel at great expense to meet him and to go to one of his classes... and pay the fee on top of that... But the next time I hear he's in Iowa, I might scare up some scratch and go see him.
In the meantime, I've read In The Gravest Extreme several times, and I believe the mindset illustrated in the book is the best possible for the general public while carrying a weapon for self defense.
It could be worse!
Massad Ayoob Group (MAG) website. There should be a MAG-40 (intro level) class scheduled for Harrisburg, PA next year, probably in the September timeframe. Harrisburg Hunters & Anglers is where I have taken both my Ayoob classes, and it is a great facility with some wonderful folks.
“What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia
SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.
The first time I met Mas (pronounced "Mass") was at the airport. He'd lost a piece of luggage and we went up to wait in line to get it. I was nervous--this was Massad Freakin' Ayoob--what do you say??? Well, in that booming, deep voice of his, he says "Daniel, this may be the first time in human history that an airline has taken an Arab hostage...." I knew we'd get along fine at that point.
In the course of talking to him about our upcoming class on the phone, he asked that we have a carry piece for him as his would be in his luggage and unavailable for the trip to the hotel. I asked what caliber he'd like (.45 ACP, please), gave him a choice of a 1911, HK, or GLOCK (HK as he planned to carry mexican), then a choice of black, green, or tan (black). "What the hell do you have there? AN ARMORY???"
On the way to drop him off after 5 days with us, and a really good class, we're pulling into a strip mall west of Chicago where he would meet up with Gail. He'd been looking for gunshops the whole way (we didn't stop laughing for 30 seconds in the 5 hour trip out, but no gun shops). I looked over the strip mall and said "Mas--I see a Vic's Secret and a Lands End store. I'd say your odds of finding a gun shop here are pretty slim". To wit he replied "Yeah--and if they did have one, they'd only sell HKs..."
Love that man.
"What does Marcellus Wallace LOOK like?"
I, too, recommend especially the classroom work on the judicious use of deadly force. On this particular topic, Mas did go into much more depth than I had in law school since criminal law classes typically focus on the nature of crimes, evidence and prosecution, not on the legal use of deadly force. In answer to a question posed above, while In the Gravest Extreme has been in print quite a while, Mas does keep up with current case law and covers those in class. Since he was a journalism major in college, he is very articulate, knows his subject matter cold and can interject some humor when called for. Long class days fly by with his excellent manner of delivery. There are plenty of schools that will teach you to shoot. The classroom portion of LF1 (or the new equivalent) will teach you to think and put CCW into a total legal context that will help anyone who carries to appreciate the ramifications of so doing. As a bonus, if you take his course, pass the written test (which you will) and are involved in an incident, he will appear as a witness in your defense.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357sig, 2340Sigpro .357sig
Mas Ayoob is VERY good for private citizen self-defense, and quite good for law enforcement. I fully credit his teachings, which I was able to relate to a grand jury, with my being no-billed, instead of my case being sent to a trial court. It was a law enforcement deadly force incident, a blade and bludgeon versus my GP100, in a time when it was more expected to respond with equivalent force, rather than reasonable force. (Be careful, much of the public STILL does not understand how truly dangerous a blade or bludgeon can be at close range.)
I attended a one-day LE seminar with Mas Ayoob and Ray Chapman in the mid-1980's, and attended the Snubby Summit, a thus-far one-time event, in December 2005, where Mas gave several short presentations.
A student of his Lethal Force training, here. Was reading the book In The Gravest Extreme before many folks had ever heard of the man, and I've handed out more copies to friends than I can recall. While some of the material feels a bit dated, perhaps, the goal today (as it has been) is to create a very high personal standard a person can live with, for seeking competency with firearms, knowing one's responsibilities and legal requirements, knowing the pros and cons of carrying a deadly weapon. Basically, for when to defend using lethal force if you follow the proscriptions that Mas promotes, you can be fairly sure of being well within the legal requirements for legitimate self-defense.
If you haven't yet acquired a copy of the book, do it. If you can afford to head to the multi-day lethal force training he offers, absolutely do it. If you are attempting to narrow down your training to a very short list of instructors covering a range of skills and topical areas, in my opinion Mas Ayoob's training on the use of deadly force should be on the list, no question about it.