Talk with Pastor

This is a discussion on Talk with Pastor within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by strider777 I probably don't have the same idea of "pastor" as you do, but I am a preacher, and have spoken about ...

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Thread: Talk with Pastor

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strider777 View Post
    I probably don't have the same idea of "pastor" as you do, but I am a preacher, and have spoken about the topic to many others. So many opinions, pretty much one for each!

    The states I carry in either allow carry in worship services or they don't; I don't know of any state where the permission of a leader in the assembly is required, and I would not ask. I don't need for anyone to know I'm carrying, whether I'm in front of the congregation or among it.

    The one exception I've made to that rule is a Sherriff who attends the congregation I work with the most. He knows I carry, and the only reason he does is because he asked, "and" because I don't want to either get in the way or get shot if a situation should actually arise. I doubt it ever would. The main reason I carry in church is to avoid leaving the gun unprotected in the car!

    Remember, it is often better to ask forgiveness than permission (& don't try to apply that idea to the Lord's commandments!).
    Welcome to Michigan!

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I live in FL where I don't have to ask anyone to be prepared to defend myself in church. In MI, however, permission from the pastor is required to be armed in a church.
    Only if your CCing, If you have a CPL and OC in church you are fine. The pastor although can still ask you to leave, and then you must or you are trespassing.
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  3. #62
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelancaster View Post
    So for those of you who have spoken with your pastor about getting his permission to conceal carry in church, how did it turn out? How did the conversation go?
    We do not have to have notify or ask permission of our pastors, but mine knows I carry, and I give him his CCW class so I know he can, but I'm not sure he does. I'd say about 10% of our congregation carries, as I know of 20 or so that do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    I live in Arizona and my particular church is full of LEO’s and guys like us. May the Lord have mercy on the idiot that try’s anything in our church.
    Same for our church in Michigan.

  5. #64
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    I would not ask if it were legal to carry in the State.
    Keep your powder dry

  6. #65
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    I am a life long Episcopalian and our Priest is absolutely Liberal to the bone and most likely anti firearm. He doesn't ask, I don't tell.

    I know of at least four others in our church with OH and WV carry permits. My area also borders KY and we have parishioners from that state too but not sure if they have one.

    As far as I know, there is no law against concealed carry with permit in WV churches and I cannot find any policy with the Episcopal Diocese that prohibits concealed carry. Well, not yet.

    Yes I do sometimes. My wife each and every Sunday. One lady in the Choir probaby packs her pistol on a regular basis.
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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by strider777 View Post

    The states I carry in either allow carry in worship services or they don't; I don't know of any state where the permission of a leader in the assembly is required, and I would not ask. I don't need for anyone to know I'm carrying, whether I'm in front of the congregation or among it.
    Michigan See #5




    Pistol Free Areas

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:



    1.
    Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

    2.
    Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3.
    Sports arena or stadium

    4.
    A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5.
    Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6.
    An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

    7.
    A hospital

    8.
    A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9.
    A Casino

    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above.
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  8. #67
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strider777 View Post
    I don't know of any state where the permission of a leader in the assembly is required, and I would not ask. I don't need for anyone to know I'm carrying, whether I'm in front of the congregation or among it.
    Michigan requires approval of church official. I asked my pastor while we were heading to a men's weekend retreat which was going to include some range time. My pastor was originally from Canada and he mentioned that Canada restricts guns to much and he prefers the way we do it in Michigan.
    So I asked him if he would be OK with me carrying in church. He said "I would welcome it".
    I've carried every Sunday since then.
    I used to carry my Snub nose 38 in a Hign Noon Split Decision with a dress shirt tucked into my slacks. The past month I have been taking the Glock 27 in a Split Decision except last week I tried my new Fist #11 IWB with an untucked polo shirt. That's a little more dressed down then how I usually go to church, but since it was below zero I opted for jeans and a heavy knit polo.

  9. #68
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    As others have pointed out, Washington state does not prohibit or require permission to carry in church. I only CC in church, not because I have a problem with OC but because OC grabs people's attention and serves as a tremendous distraction to some. Since God is supposed to be the focus, I cover up on Sunday mornings. I have not formally informed the pastor or any of the elders that I carry, but I've had enough "gun conversations" with them that no one would be surprised to find out I carry in church. I've also picked up clues from those same conversations to feel reasonably confident that at least one or two of them are packing most of the time.

    Our church is in a "safe" neighborhood in a semi-rural area, yet it's still been broken into and vadalized (there's some real irony). But it doesn't matter what church you go to; someone there has an ex-boyfriend or ex-husband or recently fired employee or whatever who may decide to show up; not to mention the completely unpredictable and random wacko. If my pastor had the legal authority to refuse permission to carry, and also refused to consider any kind of "security team" precautions, I might very well go looking for another church unless the Spirit made it clear that I should stay.

    Why doesn't God protect his worshippers? He does. The same logic and abilities that enable us to safely cross a busy street also enable us to take measures that improve our physical safety in church. But those of you who don't believe in God have to remember that our perspective on this life is much different than yours. The idea that this life can be filled with suffering or can be cut short altogether is a terrifying notion only to those who believe that this life is the sum total of one's existence. Jesus took the sting out of death, but that doesn't mean this life won't suck from time to time.
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  10. #69
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    Here in Texas, if the church isn't posted, then you can carry and don't have to ask/tell the pastor. Our pastor knows that many of us men (and a few women) carry every day. Our yearly men's retreat has come to be known as the Bible, Beef and Bullets meeting. We study the Bible, eat Barbeque, and shoot guns (usually in that order).
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  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by strider777 View Post
    I probably don't have the same idea of "pastor" as you do, but I am a preacher, and have spoken about the topic to many others. So many opinions, pretty much one for each!

    The states I carry in either allow carry in worship services or they don't; I don't know of any state where the permission of a leader in the assembly is required, and I would not ask. I don't need for anyone to know I'm carrying, whether I'm in front of the congregation or among it.

    The one exception I've made to that rule is a Sherriff who attends the congregation I work with the most. He knows I carry, and the only reason he does is because he asked, "and" because I don't want to either get in the way or get shot if a situation should actually arise. I doubt it ever would. The main reason I carry in church is to avoid leaving the gun unprotected in the car!

    Remember, it is often better to ask forgiveness than permission (& don't try to apply that idea to the Lord's commandments!).
    you are correct state law is clear and I do not know your over all view but you may have better luck with forgineness as it applies to the ten commandments than you will if facing a judge in virginia...... just saying..

  12. #71
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    The quote is: "It's often EASIER to get forgiveness than permission."

    Not "better."
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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  13. #72
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    Yeah...had "the discussion". He started it by telling me..."You ARE ready to protect the flock if needed right."

    I just smiled and answered...."Never any doubt John, never any doubt."

    Then he put a hand on my shoulder and prayed that Jesus would "Steel my heart, steady my aim, and use me as His instrument."

    This was almost five years ago, after our small church had received thinly veiled threats from some islamic students at UofA. It became the habit of myself and my wife to sit near the door to the Sunday School (this was 3 years before I retired). Both doors could be watched as well as the Mother-Baby room, and the Seniors Ministry.

    Yeah...I still carry in church...full sized Glock 22RTF, two spares, and a Glock 27 BUG. Wife: Glock 19, two spares, Beretta Tomcat .32 BUG.

    The pastor has honestly told me in a heart-to-heart that he doesn't think he could never take a life by his own hand, but he would gladly take the bullet for someone else. I DO honestly believe he WOULD take a bullet meant for any of his congregation.
    Last edited by AZ Infidel; January 30th, 2011 at 02:25 AM. Reason: spelling

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadoo View Post
    Here in Texas, if the church isn't posted, then you can carry and don't have to ask/tell the pastor. Our pastor knows that many of us men (and a few women) carry every day. Our yearly men's retreat has come to be known as the Bible, Beef and Bullets meeting. We study the Bible, eat Barbeque, and shoot guns (usually in that order).
    That's a men's retreat I'd like to go to....even if it meant Texas!

    Sorry Pard...you know us Arizona Cowboys have to tug at you Texas fellers when we can.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadoo View Post
    Here in Texas, if the church isn't posted, then you can carry and don't have to ask/tell the pastor. Our pastor knows that many of us men (and a few women) carry every day. Our yearly men's retreat has come to be known as the Bible, Beef and Bullets meeting. We study the Bible, eat Barbeque, and shoot guns (usually in that order).
    We had a men's weekend through our church last year. Great time, bible lessons on how to be a better man/husband/father, made wallets out of duck tape, hand to hand combat (thumb wrestling, rock paper scissors), skeet shooting, handgun shooting, archery and paintball.
    They just announced the date for this years trip. I am looking forward to going again.

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