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Talk with Pastor

7K views 73 replies 54 participants last post by  TedBeau 
#1 ·
So for those of you who have spoken with your pastor about getting his permission to conceal carry in church, how did it turn out? How did the conversation go?
 
#2 ·
I probably don't have the same idea of "pastor" as you do, but I am a preacher, and have spoken about the topic to many others. So many opinions, pretty much one for each!

The states I carry in either allow carry in worship services or they don't; I don't know of any state where the permission of a leader in the assembly is required, and I would not ask. I don't need for anyone to know I'm carrying, whether I'm in front of the congregation or among it.

The one exception I've made to that rule is a Sherriff who attends the congregation I work with the most. He knows I carry, and the only reason he does is because he asked, "and" because I don't want to either get in the way or get shot if a situation should actually arise. I doubt it ever would. The main reason I carry in church is to avoid leaving the gun unprotected in the car!

Remember, it is often better to ask forgiveness than permission (& don't try to apply that idea to the Lord's commandments!).
 
#3 ·
We have a security team that totes. Since it is still illegal in Arkansas to tote in church, we are all cops of some sort and it is legal for us to do so.
My Pastor totes. He can do that because there is a loop hole that allows him to carry in his place of buisness.
The rest are certified officers and its not an issue we can pretty much tote anywhere.

Many of the Pastors here tote.
 
#19 ·
That is true in many of the larger churches, but I assure you that at many if not most rural churches there are attendees packing, regardless of what state law says. It's like the "old" Clinton policy of "don't ask don't tell" :rolleyes:
 
#5 ·
In my state, permission from the Pastor is not required. I carry, and obviously am fine with others who carry concealed. I would not be in favor of open carry...legal or not...just because it is bound to make some people nervous....and usually, people who don't like something leave the church. If someone who has attended the church for a while asked me, I'd give my approval. If someone that I'd never seen before popped in the door and asked...I'd have to wonder a little about them. Normally, the first conversation with the Pastor isn't "can I carry?"
 
#6 ·
I am a worship pastor and have me CCDW (Kentucky). I do not carry at church, though I probably should. Have no strong conviction about it, but I do know that two of the musicians/tech folks on my team are always armed. Have never spoken to the senior pastor about it, though we have had "security" talks. Hopeing a more definite game plan is in place in the near future. The head of our greeting team is retired Sherriff. Don't know if he carries, but would not surprise me.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for all the replys. This would not be the first conversation I would have had with my pastor. I have been a member of this church going on nine years. If I am reading the law correctly it states that permission is needed from a senior authority within the church. I would rather not ask at all but was wondering how some others conversations had progressed.
 
#8 ·
It is legal in Florida and permission is not required. But, out of deferrence to his pastoral leadership, I did mention to my pastor that I conceal carry but would not do so in church unless he was okay with it. He was very agreeable. So I do!
 
#9 ·
I live in FL where I don't have to ask anyone to be prepared to defend myself in church. In MI, however, permission from the pastor is required to be armed in a church.
 
#10 ·
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha..... no, I already knows how he feels.... he has more No Gun signs posted that Noah had animals on the Ark. It hasn't effected me much... I did tell him I'ld come back when he takes them down.
 
#11 ·
I don't know of any state where the permission of a leader in the assembly is required
Wyoming is one of those states where permission is required to be legal. Don't know about that conversation though because I don't attend church any longer and have no intention of doing so any time in the future.
 
#12 ·
Our gun policy in the church I attend is "hit what you aim at." In any given service I know there are at least five that are armed. This spring I am going to do a CCW class for the cost of the book for up to 20 in the men's ministry - then we will have more. Other than the cost it will be the same as I do with any CCW group - by the book, safety first and how to stay out of jail. Then and only then will we do live fire.

Don't turn your place of worship into a free fire zone - take down the signs.
 
#15 ·
When the new pastor arrived I asked on the QT about his feeling about guns; he was a mild gun guy and then I asked about guns in church. He knew that KS had CC and that I hung out with a guy who was a hunter and that had taught me to deer hunt --- he asked if I had my permit and I said yes I did and that I had and might just be armed in church! He said he would like that. After the pastor got shot in IL he also asked if I would watch his back when I was there and I said I already was. Told him I would want to some watching my six if I was in his position and he knew I had been; I am also ordained and current chosing not to serve a church. While I would like to know who all is carrying in a church I served in KS you ARE NOT required to ask the pastor or anyone else in authority in the congregation. The first 6 months to a year of KS CCW law churches where on the THOU SHALT NOT CARRY IN PLACES in the law but thanks to some liberal do-gooders the law got ammended (well the liberals cause the law to get ammended when they started encouraging citys to post no gun signage in parks and other outdoor venues!)
 
#32 ·
When the new pastor arrived I asked on the QT about his feeling about guns; he was a mild gun guy and then I asked about guns in church. He knew that KS had CC and that I hung out with a guy who was a hunter and that had taught me to deer hunt --- he asked if I had my permit and I said yes I did and that I had and might just be armed in church! He said he would like that.
Can we trade pastors .... ?? Ours seems to think "he is" the right hand of God. The most arrogant righteous self-serving person I've ever seen ...... so you can guess, him & I don't see eye to eye. I told him one day (which I meant) that I don't think he had any better connection to God than any other person.... because God loved ALL of his people. He's been ticked since.
 
#16 ·
For many of us, shops who posts a "no guns" sign will get boycotted, and their gun-friendly competition will see increased business. Is it unreasonable to apply the same policy towards churches, synagogues, and mosques? If not, then what makes them special? Obviously, this argument pertains to states where armed carry is not legal in places of worship and only applies towards a welcome member of the congregation; an armed neo-nazi in a synagogue is definitely trespassing.

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)
Jesus not only condoned His followers being armed in His presence, He encouraged it. Why would a pastor put him/herself above Christ?
 
#17 · (Edited)
I carry (Sr. Pastor). The assistant pastor carries. Part-time teaching pastor hunts, but doesn't carry. Half the men in our men's group shoot, and a few of them carry. This is a GOOD church!

In fact, I may start a God and Gun Club.
 
#20 ·
Greetings, Michael...how's life been for you?
Merry Christmas and certainly have a Happy New Year.

Ken
 
#18 ·
My Pastor asked me to be armed at church in case "something" happened. :image035:
 
#21 ·
Well as a senior pastor, you can check my signature and guess where I stand. What kind of response you receive frankly will depend upon where you are in the country, the denomination of church you attend, and the background of your pastor. More "baptistic"? Probably more gun friendly. More pentecostal? Likely less so. In the NE or West Coast? Probably more likely to find resistance than throughout the south or Midwest. Here in AZ church carry is legal without permission; for that matter, Constitutional Carry says anyone who can own a handgun and is 21 or older can conceal it (other than in an establishment that serves alcohol on the premises...that requires CCW).

Most of the pastors I know are fine with people carrying. I know I am, and we regularly have 4 or 5 armed men in a congregation of 170 or so including me. The congregation knows I am a firearms enthusiast, and regularly take anyone in church who wants to learn out shooting or hunting. We do ask that those who are armed let us know, just so we can include them in planning should anything happen in our midst. Plus, if you want to carry I want you as part of our informal security plan!

My advice to anyone who wants to carry in church is to talk with their leadership, neither demanding nor hat in hand. Go and give honest information, then live for Christ and not for people.

Also, for the record, I do NOT believe that we can treat our church like a place of business. I agree that I will not patronize a business with a "no guns allowed" sign, but the consumer mentality is not what God wants for Christians. We are a community not a business or a dispenser of products. If that is our attitude we have stepped FAR away from the model of church that I read about in Scripture. Sure, if I were new in town and looking for a place to call home it would be an issue. Otherwise, hopping from church to church because of what the church offers you is not the way to go. Instead, be the change agent to balance your congregation and bring healthy change where it is needed. Dive in instead of abandoning ship and make a difference where you are.
 
#22 ·
About 15 years ago the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) issued a call to all members to remove "assault weapons" and handguns from their homes. I offered to take mine out to church every Sunday morning.

I was probably the least popular serving elder in that congregation! But, since I was also president of the not-for-profit corporation, and signed the pastor's paychecks, this issue never grew any legs. When I was responding to the burglar alarm at all hours of the night nobody seemed to mind that I was armed. When I was forced to eject a guy who came into the church to harass his ex-wife nobody seemed to mind.

Not long afterward, PCUSA made a point of demanding that US flags not be displayed in sanctuaries (much too "divisive", don't you know), and pursued several other actively anti-American policies on a national basis.

PCUSA worked very hard, and eventually was rewarded with my resignation from membership and office.
 
#24 ·
I did bring the subject up on church trip. We were going on a men's retreat which included some skeet shooting and target practice along with paintball and of course some workshops and sermons. One of the church elders was also present and we were discussing guns and CPL in general. The church elder stated that he was "ALWAYS" armed.
The pastor had made a comment that Michigan "got it right" in regards to legal carry. He is originally from Canada, and just became a US citizen. I asked the pastor if he would have a problem with me carrying in church and his response was "I would welcome it". :smile:

I mean, I don't want to disapoint him now, do I?
 
#26 ·
Well said MinisterMalic! I'm a former Pastor; sad long story but I carried the whole time. In Missouri you're required to get permission. The bible requires us to submit to authority unless that authority would run contrary to the Word. I believe this means folks in Missouris need to seek the permission of leadership.

We also need to be very very sensitive about how we carry in church and who we tell. Althought we have liberty in Christ, we should be willing to set aside some of those liberties if they might cause a brother to stumble. Likewise, if what we're doing could hinder a lost person in coming to Christ then we ought to be not only willing, but eager to give it up. That's the whole point of the teachings on eating meat sacrificed to idols in the Bible.

I now teach an adult Sunday school class at the church I attend. No one knows I carry except the Pastor. I'll never ever divulge that to anyone else unless there are very very special circumstances and even then I'll think twice. I'm very careful about how I carry. For example, I won't "snap" a mag onto my belt, it has to be "threaded" on because one time a mag pouch came loose and spilled out a mag (not in church thankfully!).

I've had a snap pouch that holds one speed strip of .38's come undone and dump a speed strip off my belt so I don't use those.

I have a Kahr MK9 that is perfect for church carry because of it's very low profile.

In all the years I did pastor, I never had a single person ask permission but would have granted it if they were a member of the congregation I knew and trusted. I'd also take issue with someone who was demanding or brand new or even not a member yet unless they were new to the area and just being honest and up front.

I believe churches are going to become more and more vulnerable to violence.

God Bless
Gideon
 
#27 ·
In Florida you don't have to ask so I didn't when I first started carrying. I know of about 20 people at church that have their license though I don't know if they all carry.

I now head up the church security team and the team is armed (CC) so I don't have any problems with being armed. I only know of one couple that doesn't think security is necessary but everyone else that finds out has all welcomed it.

We keep it low key but guys walking around with a Secret Service style earpiece does cause people to draw conclusion. :image035:
 
#28 ·
1776Forever, Georgia law prohibits carry in church with no exceptions. The "place of business" exemption does not apply here, so pastors are not even exempt, nor can they grant permission to carry. GeorgiaCarry has filed suit, claiming that the law is unconstitutional. Currently, though, it's still law. You can read the documents here:
http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/category/action-items/places-of-worship-carry-ban/
 
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