Concealed Carry on Philly subway

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry on Philly subway within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi everybody, I was hoping someone living in or near Philly could answer this for me. I have searched the forum as well as all ...

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Thread: Concealed Carry on Philly subway

  1. #1
    New Member Array BrianHinWV's Avatar
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    Concealed Carry on Philly subway

    Hi everybody, I was hoping someone living in or near Philly could answer this for me. I have searched the forum as well as all over on-line and have not found an answer. Does the Philly area subway system permit concealed carry of firearms? My younger brother just moved there, to a not so nice neighborhood, and rides the train to and from work late at night. I am trying to convince him the get a permit as well as a concealed pistol for his safety and security while on the train.

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    Member Array 3rik's Avatar
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    Here's somewhere to start looking:

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
    "Obviously you're not a golfer." -The Dude

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    Member Array violinjim's Avatar
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    I'm no PA expert but Philly's laws are not the same as PA's? Something to do with Mayor Nuttor. I have a PA CCW and believe I'm not allowed to carry in Philly. Then add the complication of the subway (which is where I'd want it the most).

    Kind of seems backward from common sense but then so are most gun laws.

    Jim

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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    The only difference I am aware of is that in order to OC in PA, you need a valid LTCF. This is different from the rest of the state in that one does not need a permit to openly carry (but OC in a vehicle requires a permit). I don't know if there are any special restrictions with the subway, but I doubt it. Keep it concealed.

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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Concealed carry is legal on the subway.

    Quote Originally Posted by violinjim View Post
    I'm no PA expert but Philly's laws are not the same as PA's?
    The only difference is that open carry in the city requires a LTCF, unlike the rest of the state. You can absolutely carry in Philly.

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    Member Array spike's Avatar
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    The wife and myself took a trip to Philadelphia in November. Before the trip I made a phone call to the assistant AG Office. He told me That since the wife and myself have permits from Utah and New Hampshire which PA recognizes. We we all set and to have a safe trip. The only places we could not carry was the liberty bell and independance hall and the visitors center. Philly tried to make special rules for themselves,but it got squashed by the Attoney generals office. The AG's web site has good information and you can print out the reciprocation aggrements. Alot of good information. hope this helps
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    Senior Member Array rmarkob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post
    Concealed carry is legal on the subway.

    The only difference is that open carry in the city requires a LTCF, unlike the rest of the state. You can absolutely carry in Philly.
    Exactly right. This is not a Philly law, but is state law which requires a License To Carry Firearms (LTCF) to open carry in any "city of the first class", which is defined as any city with a population over 1 million. Philly is the only city that currently qualifies (Pittsburgh is less than 400k, IIRC).

    Although Philly politicians routinely try to enact their own gun laws, PA is a preemption state, and such attempts are repeatedly slapped down.

    Another resource for PA gun laws is the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association - http://www.pafoa.org/
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

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    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violinjim View Post
    I'm no PA expert but Philly's laws are not the same as PA's? Something to do with Mayor Nuttor. I have a PA CCW and believe I'm not allowed to carry in Philly. Then add the complication of the subway (which is where I'd want it the most).

    Kind of seems backward from common sense but then so are most gun laws.

    Jim
    If you have a PA permit you can carry anywhere in the state.

  10. #9
    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
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    As already answered...you may carry on the subway, bus or train system run by SEPTA.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    If you have a PA permit you can carry anywhere in the state.
    To broaden it a little....if you have a permit from any state PA has reciprocity with you can carry anywhere in the state...including Philadelphia.

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    I think the confusion with PHL arises from the need to have a special philly permit to OC. Otherwise, I believe it is state law which is followed--- except when they try to make up their own as they seem to do from time to time on the fly. Latest example being a recent spate of refusals to recognize the FL non-resident permit, and that was quickly straightened out by a DA who let the locals know the law.

    CAUTION. I don't know the layout of their subway system well. Some caution might be needed at points where the local subway system and Amtrack or other interstate rail lines meet.

    I'm sure someone from there can explain it, but I think there are local phila subways, and there are non-Amtrack trains which serve areas outside of phila, and then there is Amtrack, and there may be points where these converge that could create some special circumstances. You don't want to be caught carrying on Amtrack operated trains or facilities.

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    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think the confusion with PHL arises from the need to have a special philly permit to OC. Otherwise, I believe it is state law which is followed--- except when they try to make up their own as they seem to do from time to time on the fly. Latest example being a recent spate of refusals to recognize the FL non-resident permit, and that was quickly straightened out by a DA who let the locals know the law.

    CAUTION. I don't know the layout of their subway system well. Some caution might be needed at points where the local subway system and Amtrack or other interstate rail lines meet.

    I'm sure someone from there can explain it, but I think there are local phila subways, and there are non-Amtrack trains which serve areas outside of phila, and then there is Amtrack, and there may be points where these converge that could create some special circumstances. You don't want to be caught carrying on Amtrack operated trains or facilities.
    As far as I know, you don't need a special Philly permit to OC. In PA you can open carry without any permit except for in city's with a certain population (I forget the number). Philly meets the criteria so to OC in Philly you are required to have the standard PA carry permit or a permit accepted via reciprocity in order to OC or CC. Just because you can OC in Philly, probably not a good idea.

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    Member Array cardinalfan's Avatar
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    CCW on public transportation? WOW, wish we had that in St.Louis. Some of the seediest characters you see steal rides on the metrolink all the time and it is one of the places defined under MO law that will get you into real trouble, not just trespassing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    As far as I know, you don't need a special Philly permit to OC. In PA you can open carry without any permit except for in city's with a certain population (I forget the number). Philly meets the criteria so to OC in Philly you are required to have the standard PA carry permit or a permit accepted via reciprocity in order to OC or CC. Just because you can OC in Philly, probably not a good idea.
    Whatever, if you don't live there and know, double and triple check. My understanding was that the state permit allowed for CC & OC outside of Philly, but not for OC within Phila; but that Phila issued an OC permit. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Everyone, check it out carefully yourself so you don't mess up.

    Anyway as for the trains, I was just pointing out that I think there are 3 different systems. One of them is not Amtrack but goes into Jersey. Its a regional rail line. I don't know if it run by Amtrack or different. There is SEPTA and PATCO and Amtrack. Patco definitely goes into Jersey.

    All I'm saying is double and triple check that you know which lines you are on, and that you know what rules apply to each, and that you make darn sure you don't carry into Amtrack territory or into Jersey. A guy could easily get off at 30th on either of two Philly lines and accidentally wander into 30th Street Station (Amtrack). Or a guy could easily get on something at Walnut or Locust near Broad and end up in NJ, G-d forbid.

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    Senior Member Array mastercapt's Avatar
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    At the risk off sounding uninformed, hwtas the deal with Amtrack?
    Do they specifically forbid guns, or is it some kind of law?
    Reason I asked is my Buddy has property in Va. He said he may want to go up there on Autotrain, which I believe is owned by amtrack, and asked me if I wanted to go with him.
    He knows I carry and my Florida CWP is recognized in Va, and all the other states along the route.

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    Open carry only is controlled be Philly.
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