To BUG or not to BUG? - Page 2

To BUG or not to BUG?

This is a discussion on To BUG or not to BUG? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; On duty I carry a primary and two BUGs; Off duty a primary and one BUG - ALWAYS HAVE & ALWAYS WILL....

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array dawei's Avatar
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    On duty I carry a primary and two BUGs; Off duty a primary and one BUG - ALWAYS HAVE & ALWAYS WILL.


  2. #17
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    Great replies so far. Thank you, everyone.

    So, my thinking is on track as far as the need for quick access. Now, as to the WHAT. Several have mentioned the CQC situation, where the muzzle would be in contact with the BG, as one of their reasons for using a revolver. Am I off track with an auto as BUG? I have done some informal self-training with buddies where you push the BG, cant the slide away from the body and then fire. For those with the training, is there a significant advantage one way or another?
    "Mind own business"
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  3. #18
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    Another question.

    This is for the LEO's and former LEO's. I stumbled across this somewhere in my reading, I don't recall where though. It was something to the effect that LEO's go to even higher levels of concern when dealing with someone with more that one handgun than they do with those carrying just one. As if that person is more likely to be a threat than someone with only one. Thoughts?
    "Mind own business"
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  4. #19
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    To BUG or not to BUG? That is the question.

    I estimate that I carry at least one BUG 90% of the time. The other 10% I'll just go with the larger "primary" weapon. If I'm going to go to the trouble of carrying a handgun, I want it to be one that I am well trained with and that I have confidence in. I shoot my BUG's probably more than most, most common is a J-Frame, but not as much as my "primary". For that reason I am considering carrying two "primary" guns on the belt instead of a "primary" and a BUG.

    Right now I'm packing a 1911 Government Model. If, and there's about a 75% chance I will, go to carrying two primary weapons I will have to look in to relocating some of the other things I carry. I've had a number of years where my BUG has been in my pocket, and I don't know if I want to change that as it can be nice to have your hand on a gun but the situation doesn't warrant displaying a gun yet. Bear in mind, I'm viewing this from a CCW Permit Holder or off duty LEO perspective, not an on duty one. Having had need of my BUG before I absolutely demand that I can reach a firearm with either hand.

    One of the reasons I have favored the J-Frame as a BUG is that I can arm any relatively competant person and they will know how to operate the weapon with a minimum of instruction. The same cannot be said for the 1911 or the Hi Power that I favor. This is something else I have to ponder, having armed a second person once. However most people that I associate with are "gunnies" and would know how to operate a 1911 if they didn't have a weapon of their own. That's just more for me to ponder. I'd also have to look at getting some suspenders.

    I'm a big fan of a BUG, if you can't tell. The thing is, I got to asking myself some questions about my BUG and didn't like the answers that I came up with. That has me leaning towards carrying two of the same guns, which is what you don't seem to be inclined to want to do. Good luck in your quest for answers.

    Biker

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Well, looks like I get to take the contrarian perspective.

    Not to BUG.

    That's just me. If you want to carry 2, 3, 7 or a dozen guns about your person, feel free. I won't criticize your decision because I don't care and it doesn't affect me one way or the other. Free country.

    But I find a compact semiauto to be a bit heavy and carrying one comfortably and concealed has taken some time and a lot of money - holsters and belts aren't cheap.

    I really don't know how I'd manage a second firearm without considerable drawbacks. An ankle holster would not suit my fighting style and not be at ready hand.

    One of the toughest FoF scenarios I've trained for involves the opponent grabbing you by the front of your shirt, slamming you to a wall and pressing a knife to your throat. With a confederate or two in the background.

    Now, assuming you manage the counter and get the guy a foot or two away, you might grab enough time to draw and fire while moving to gain distance. If something goes wrong and your gun jams, well, what are you going to do? Transition to the BUG?

    You'll be dead long before you manage that maneuver. So the scenario in which you are casually plinking away with your primary, dispatching wave upon wave of zombie ninjas and then - whoops-a-daisy! - you have a malfunction and then instead of clearing it you smartly produce your BUG to continue your hail of bullets is, to my thinking, extremely unlikely.

    The situation in which you need to produce a gun at all is extremely unlikely.

    If you do present a firearm and have to fire it, that's even more unlikely.

    So, given all that, I train harder to deal with FoF and figure that in most cases I'll probably have to use combatives or evasion first, just to gain time to get my CCW into play in the first place, and if it gets to that point, and I'm skillful enough to manage it, then that's game over, set and match.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    How come no one ever mentions carrying a BUG to give to your companion when something goes down? Two shooters are better than one.
    I'd have to judge if the person with me would a) have my 6, b) be useless in a event or c) be as likely to shoot me as the BG. That is unless it was SWMBO, in which case, she has her own Kimber 45 and mags

  7. #22
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    About the only time I carry a BUG is when deep concealment is going to be necessary. I'll carry both until the primary get's stationed in the car safe.

    Hmm.. However, could I consider my pistol packin' girlfriend a BUG?
    "Obviously you're not a golfer." -The Dude

  8. #23
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    As a newbie carrier, I carry my SR9 with 1 in the pipe and 2 17 rounders. I am not comfortable with a second gun and feel I can reload faster and safer, then I feel with a BUG. I figure that if I can't hit the BG with 35 rounds, I certainly have no reason to carry another gun. I believe it all comes down to how comfortable you are with what you are carrying. Until I know that I am very proficient with a second gun, I choose to carry 1.
    ”And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms….The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants”
    ~Thomas Jefferson

  9. #24
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    My take after a few decades of guns is that my likelihood of falling victim to a violent crime is fair to rare. My likelihood to drawdown and shoot someone is fairly slim. My need to have a BUG as a simple pagan is pretty darn remote. Now, I use to lock n’ load an array of EDC hardware but over time I suspended the practice. These days I simply carry my j-frame and/or my OC and call it done. If its after hours or I’m headed to the theater I’ll clip on the Surefire ‘Back-Up’. Perhaps its age or complacency, but I no longer care to be weighted down with excess stuff.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    To BUG or not to BUG? That is the question.

    I estimate that I carry at least one BUG 90% of the time. The other 10% I'll just go with the larger "primary" weapon. If I'm going to go to the trouble of carrying a handgun, I want it to be one that I am well trained with and that I have confidence in. I shoot my BUG's probably more than most, most common is a J-Frame, but not as much as my "primary". For that reason I am considering carrying two "primary" guns on the belt instead of a "primary" and a BUG.

    Right now I'm packing a 1911 Government Model. If, and there's about a 75% chance I will, go to carrying two primary weapons I will have to look in to relocating some of the other things I carry. I've had a number of years where my BUG has been in my pocket, and I don't know if I want to change that as it can be nice to have your hand on a gun but the situation doesn't warrant displaying a gun yet. Bear in mind, I'm viewing this from a CCW Permit Holder or off duty LEO perspective, not an on duty one. Having had need of my BUG before I absolutely demand that I can reach a firearm with either hand.

    One of the reasons I have favored the J-Frame as a BUG is that I can arm any relatively competant person and they will know how to operate the weapon with a minimum of instruction. The same cannot be said for the 1911 or the Hi Power that I favor. This is something else I have to ponder, having armed a second person once. However most people that I associate with are "gunnies" and would know how to operate a 1911 if they didn't have a weapon of their own. That's just more for me to ponder. I'd also have to look at getting some suspenders.

    I'm a big fan of a BUG, if you can't tell. The thing is, I got to asking myself some questions about my BUG and didn't like the answers that I came up with. That has me leaning towards carrying two of the same guns, which is what you don't seem to be inclined to want to do. Good luck in your quest for answers.

    Biker
    Actually, I am leaning that way. However, for the purpose of my challenge I don't intend to spend hundreds of dollars. If at the conclusion I decide to carry a BUG/secondary, I would have no problem spending the money. But not for what amounts to a long term test run. I am sticking with what I already have, which is the G36.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    [I]My take after a few decades of guns is that my likelihood of falling victim to a violent crime is fair to rare. My likelihood to drawdown and shoot someone is fairly slim. My need to have a BUG as a simple pagan is pretty darn remote. Now, I use to lock n’ load an array of EDC hardware but over time I suspended the practice. These days I simply carry my j-frame and/or my OC and call it done. If its after hours or I’m headed to the theater I’ll clip on the Surefire ‘Back-Up’. Perhaps its age or complacency, but I no longer care to be weighted down with excess stuff.[/I]
    This has always been my thinking. I carry a lot of "stuff" everyday and the last thing I want to do is add to that. But, my friend's point is that it isn't really that difficult. We shall see.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rik View Post
    About the only time I carry a BUG is when deep concealment is going to be necessary. I'll carry both until the primary get's stationed in the car safe.

    Hmm.. However, could I consider my pistol packin' girlfriend a BUG?
    Just don't make the mistake of calling her your Back Up Girlfriend!
    "Mind own business"
    "Always cut cards"

  11. #26
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    You can carry one of those Hollywood guns that never run out of bullets but if your not able to use your gun hand, (if you're pinned down on the ground on your gun side, someone has grabbed your primary weapon and you're fighting for it, your gun hand has been shot... yeah, that actually happens! Your gun hand is engaged holding the BG's weapon... etc. etc.) you'll be wishing you had a BUG for the weak hand! Just sayin'!

    Don't forget, you can have a couple spare magazines ( I always carry at least one) but if your semi-auto breaks in the middle of a gun fight, most of you (and I) won't be able to identify and clear that malfunction as fast as you can draw a BUG.

    When you research what really happens in gun fights it becomes apparent the true value of the BUG. Yeah, you'll probably never need it. You'll probably never need your primary weapon either... but, someone here will very likely need both some day! I hope it's never me but I will be as prepared as I can if it is.

    Clint Smith says; 'One is none and two is one!"
    Last edited by Thumper; December 31st, 2010 at 11:55 PM.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Another question.

    This is for the LEO's and former LEO's. I stumbled across this somewhere in my reading, I don't recall where though. It was something to the effect that LEO's go to even higher levels of concern when dealing with someone with more that one handgun than they do with those carrying just one. As if that person is more likely to be a threat than someone with only one. Thoughts?
    The one I hear being repeated in training is that if we find ONE weapon, there is a high chance of finding another weapon. It seems some LEOs have relaxed their guard after finding one weapon, and assuming it was the only weapon, suffered the consequences when the detained felon whipped out another weapon and went to work.

    As for showing a higher level of concern upon finding someone with multiple weapons, I reckon that would depend upon why the person was detained in the first place. Moreover, US society has tended to see anyone who owns more than one gun, or several of the same type of weapon, to be some kind of nut, so that is simply reflected among police, who are drawn from society at large.

    It certainly doesn't help that several one-shooter mass-casualty events have involved perps carrying multiple weapons.

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Great replies so far. Thank you, everyone.

    So, my thinking is on track as far as the need for quick access. Now, as to the WHAT. Several have mentioned the CQC situation, where the muzzle would be in contact with the BG, as one of their reasons for using a revolver. Am I off track with an auto as BUG? I have done some informal self-training with buddies where you push the BG, cant the slide away from the body and then fire. For those with the training, is there a significant advantage one way or another?
    Some folks put too much emphasis on this, actually promoting the practice of shoving a muzzle against an opponent. Nevertheless, sometimes a bad guy is all over and against his victim, so the ability to fire a muzzle-contact shot is not a bad thing in and off itself. I would rather a bad guy NOT know I am about to change the equation, until it is indeed changed, so I would not promote placing muzzles against bad guys. It makes for good cinema, perhaps, but I don't want to give an opponent any chance to deflect my muzzle, or twist his body at the last millisecond, to perhaps change the path of the bullet to something less harmful.

    The need to keep an auto's muzzle out of contact with an opponent's body is offset by the revolver's cylinder's vulnerability to being grabbed, making it difficult to shoot DA. Both issues can be overcome/mitigated with training.
    Last edited by Rexster; December 31st, 2010 at 08:48 PM. Reason: typo

  14. #29
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    Is this too large a BUG to carry concealed??


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Is this too large a BUG to carry concealed??
    OMG I knew I carried a .45 for a good reason. Now just hold very still. What the heck is that ? Some species of stick bug?

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