Drinking while Carrying - Page 5

Drinking while Carrying

This is a discussion on Drinking while Carrying within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare Impairment is impairment....only you know how it affects you. I would estimate that with most people, the opposite is true. When ...

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Thread: Drinking while Carrying

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Impairment is impairment....only you know how it affects you.
    I would estimate that with most people, the opposite is true. When I was regularly attending bars, I almost always saw people deciding they were 'ok' to drive when they were clearly not, even when they were normally objective and reasonable. Sexual inhibitions aren't the only ones loosened up by alcohol. That's why I made my decisions on how much is too much when I was sober. Now I drink a couple of times a year, so it's no longer an issue though.


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Now that the new "Shall Issue" law has passed in Iowa, there are no restrictions on carry and alcohol consumption, except that ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowa DPS carry FAQ
    All carry permits and permits to acquire pistols or revolvers are invalid when the permit holder is intoxicated. This is defined as any one of the following: 1) while under the influence of an alcoholic beverage or other drug or a combination of such substances, 2) while having an alcohol concentration of .08 or more, or 3) while any amount of a controlled substance is present in the person, as measured in the
    person's blood or urine.
    And, there is no "implied consent" under the law regarding permits. So you cannot be forced to test for level of intoxication.

    That said, I don't drink and carry, I don't drink and drive... at all.

    Alcohol and guns don't mix any better than alcohol and driving. At home, that's a different matter... but I so rarely imbibe, it's inconsequential.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  3. #63
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    My point (in general) being that Americans should not be so quick to incrementally give up small little tiny portions of their right to be armed for personal protection.

    Because then you get things like......

    No carry into any place that serves alcohol.

    No carry into any establishment where BS% of their business is serving alcohol and BS% of their business is serving food.

    Open Carry OK - as long as the firearm is unloaded.

    Take the firearm off and place it unloaded in plain view on the seat when inside a vehicle.

    Having a firearm in the car is OK as long as you can prove that you're going to or from a gun range.

    And mandatory MUST NOTIFY for a traffic stop.

    Next it will be: No carry if you've had more than two Extra Strength Tylenol in 8 hours.

    And don't think it won't happen. Nobody ever thought they would be banning toys from kids Happy Meals or Soda Machines on government property.

    But, they already have.

    Now it's Net Neutrality on the Internet. And the list goes on & on & on & on.

    In Pennsylvania you can actually get in and out of your car carrying concealed & go into bars or any restaurant while you are carrying a firearm and you can eat & you can legally enjoy a beer or a glass of wine with dinner and there are not negligent discharges happening all over PA. It's called Adult Responsibility.
    It's called ~ Nanny State...Stay dahell out of my life!
    And I don't think I've even seen a building around here posted with a NO FIREARMS sign. With the exception of the courthouse or the magistrates office.
    I am not saying that everyone in PA should go out and get sloshed while carrying but, FREEDOM is a nice thing & I absolutely hate slippery slopes which is where government control (a little tiny bit at a time) always leads us.

    So just be careful what you "absolutely no exceptions" think is OK or not OK....because it never ends with the anti-gunners. Because before you know it - the next thing that "isn't so OK" will crammed down your throat.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    My point (in general) being that Americans should not be so quick to incrementally give up small little tiny portions of their right to be armed for personal protection.

    Because then you get things like......

    No carry into any place that serves alcohol.

    No carry into any establishment where BS% of their business is serving alcohol and BS% of their business is serving food.

    Open Carry OK - as long as the firearm is unloaded.

    Take the firearm off and place it unloaded in plain view on the seat when inside a vehicle.

    Having a firearm in the car is OK as long as you can prove that you're going to or from a gun range.

    And mandatory MUST NOTIFY for a traffic stop.

    Next it will be: No carry if you've had more than two Extra Strength Tylenol in 8 hours.

    And don't think it won't happen. Nobody ever thought they would be banning toys from kids Happy Meals or Soda Machines on government property.

    But, they already have.

    Now it's Net Neutrality on the Internet. And the list goes on & on & on & on.

    In Pennsylvania you can actually get in and out of your car carrying concealed & go into bars or any restaurant while you are carrying a firearm and you can eat & you can legally enjoy a beer or a glass of wine with dinner and there are not negligent discharges happening all over PA. It's called Adult Responsibility.
    It's called ~ Nanny State...Stay dahell out of my life!
    And I don't think I've even seen a building around here posted with a NO FIREARMS sign. With the exception of the courthouse or the magistrates office.
    I am not saying that everyone in PA should go out and get sloshed while carrying but, FREEDOM is a nice thing & I absolutely hate slippery slopes which is where government control (a little tiny bit at a time) always leads us.

    So just be careful what you "absolutely no exceptions" think is OK or not OK....because it never ends with the anti-gunners. Because before you know it - the next thing that "isn't so OK" will crammed down your throat.
    My disclaimer (maybe I should make it my signature here) is that any restrictions I advocate are VOLUNTARY. I object to ANY law that restricts our freedoms, firearms or otherwise. On the other hand, stupid laws get passed in response to stupid actions by people. Carry in a bar, drink too much, and do something stupid, law gets passed restricting carry in bars. . .

    And since you mentioned Net Neutrality, I should point out that (as an IT worker), most people don't know how truly scary that really is. I work for an ISP, and these rulings could very well put us out of business if they're applied in certain ways. Fortunately, Congress seems inclined to shut it down.
    Last edited by livewire; January 3rd, 2011 at 02:19 PM. Reason: clarification

  5. #65
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I would estimate that with most people, the opposite is true. When I was regularly attending bars, I almost always saw people deciding they were 'ok' to drive when they were clearly not, even when they were normally objective and reasonable. Sexual inhibitions aren't the only ones loosened up by alcohol. That's why I made my decisions on how much is too much when I was sober. Now I drink a couple of times a year, so it's no longer an issue though.
    Well I was thinking more along the lines of....you already know how your are affected by alcohol...not in the moment but from past experience. If you cant determine that realistically for yourself, then the fact that you are carrying a firearm at all is scary. OTOH, I'm sure it true for many people, as evidenced by DUIs.

    But laws are not necessarily going to stop those things from happening. It's more about personal responsibility and being prepared.

    See my sig about 'freedom.'
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Well I was thinking more along the lines of....you already know how your are affected by alcohol...not in the moment but from past experience. If you cant determine that realistically for yourself, then the fact that you are carrying a firearm at all is scary. OTOH, I'm sure it true for many people, as evidenced by DUIs.

    But laws are not necessarily going to stop those things from happening. It's more about personal responsibility and being prepared.

    See my sig about 'freedom.'
    Ahh, you were talking about responsible people

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    My point (in general) being that Americans should not be so quick to incrementally give up small little tiny portions of their right to be armed for personal protection.

    .

    I agree 100%

    Like you said further down about adult responsibility....Americans seem to believe that laws actually prevent crimes, when IMO, they only slow down a small percentage of average joes and that they want to abidicate much of their own personal responsibilty for safety to the govt (also unrealistically)....and we do need to be personally responsible for our actions, our decisions.

    And yes folks, I am a Democrat.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Ahh, you were talking about responsible people
    Heh, yeah. But my point is also (see my post to OK Shooter) that the laws really dont mean much to 'irresponsible people' anyway. They dont stop them from being irresponsible, they only restrict the rest of us.

    I think the only thing that effectively 'corrects' irresponsible behavior is real consequences. I'd rather see them pay those as appropriate, rather than punishing ALL of us with those incremental laws that OK Shooter mentions.

    Sorry, I'll head back to my fantasy world now
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #69
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    "And since you mentioned Net Neutrality, I should point out that (as an IT worker), most people don't know how truly scary that really is. I work for an ISP, and these rulings could very well put us out of business if they're applied in certain ways.
    Fortunately, Congress seems inclined to shut it down."


    I heard that.

    Doggone...you folks don't know how much I despise the incremental loss of freedom.
    And we are engulfed in it and surrounded by these little wimpy egg headed twits that want to regulate & control everything and whatever they can't control they want to make illegal or somehow restrict it.

    No fireworks...somebody might lose a finger....no BB Guns for kids....No knives with blade lengths over 2 & 7/8" No High Fructose Corn Syrup - a kid gets expelled from school for having an aspirin tablet in her purse....no DRAWINGS of guns - No Christmas trees - no calling illegal immigrants "illegal immigrants" even though they are immigrants and are here illegally.
    No incandescent lightbulbs over 75 watts. (they're out in 2012...stock up on damn lightbulbs folks) Geesch!

    It all makes me want to chuck up my dadblamed lunch.

    ...Thank God that hasn't been banned yet....illegal wasting of domestic food resources. <~~~~

  10. #70
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    I live in Nevada. here you can carry and be legal with a higher BAC then is legal to drive (0.10 vs. 0.08). I I refuse to give up my right to defend myself or my wife when we go out and I have a glass of wine with dinner or any other libation.

    I am with OldVet on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Under FL law, I am allowed to drink while carrying. (Common sense insists I don't.) ...Personally, drunk or not, you have a legitimate right to self defense under any circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    ... I am sorry boys and girls but this should be a no brainer. Alcohol....no guns. Guns....no alcohol. K.I.S.S. Just my $.02.
    SO, Old School, to reverse your POV somewhat, if you have a drink no gun for you. If someone attacks you - too bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    In a deadly threat situation, what degree of impairment is OK with you? For me it's zero.
    3D, So if you are slightly impaired and the deadly threat comes at you - you die?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I see your point, however if there was a dead person at the end of that encounter, that officer most certainly would be held accountable for that drink. It would be *considered* in the final outcome of a police review board and also by dead person's relatives itching for a civil suit. Whether it was a deciding factor in the end is unknown but it would be added to overall evidence in that situation.

    (No good deed goes unpunished)
    Not so in the case, a few years ago, of the NYC detective, off duty at 2:30a.m. and legally drunk (he blew a 0.09) who shot a perp outside of the bar. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-to-full-duty/

    Just a few of my thoughts on this subject.

    Ken

  11. #71
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    I live in Nevada. here you can carry and be legal with a higher BAC then is legal to drive (0.10 vs. 0.08). I I refuse to give up my right to defend myself or my wife when we go out and I have a glass of wine with dinner or any other libation.
    I was a little amused by this when I got my NV permit. According to the instructor, they set it at .10% in order to match the driving limit. Instead of referring to the DUI limit, they used the hard number. Then when the DUI limit changed, the CCW limit was not also changed.

    As to the rest of your argument, I might submit that when armed you should have a higher situational awareness than normal. Alcohol interferes with this, so if you're drinking, you're not carrying. If you (like me) always carry, then never drink, or do like I do and set a VERY low limit to your own drinking.

    Maybe you can tolerate more than me, but do you really know your own limitations well enough to be firm with your own consumption? If so, then great. But if you're wrong and your judgment is shot, the consequences are going to be severe. Maybe the person that misses that boundary won't get in legal trouble, but then laws will be passed that screw up the rights for everyone else.
    Last edited by livewire; January 3rd, 2011 at 03:12 PM. Reason: correction

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post

    As to the rest of your argument, I might submit that when armed you should have a higher situational awareness than normal. Alcohol interferes with this, so if you're drinking, you're not carrying. If you (like me) always carry, then never drink, or do like I do and set a VERY low limit to your own drinking.

    .
    See, this is what I disagree with and why I wrote earlier that really, your personal SD should have little to do with your firearm (related to drinking). Why should your SA be higher when carrying? (For me, my behavior..."taking the High Road"...may be different, but not my SA).

    If you are serious about SD then that should be the factor regarding drinking, not whether you are carrying a gun....IMO.

    It's about drinking (or possible impairment) period....not a gun. (I think I posted this on page 1.)

    It's the laws and public fears that put so much emphasis....unrealistically IMO....on guns. Related to so many gun restrictions, not just alcohol. I think this is my take on what OK Shooter is griping about as well. The erosion of 'our' rights when it's not about the laws, it's about personal responsibility in areas where laws dont mean much. (And this is different than laws re: murder, assault, robbert, etc).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    Not so in the case, a few years ago, of the NYC detective, off duty at 2:30a.m. and legally drunk (he blew a 0.09) who shot a perp outside of the bar.
    Well I was discussing the fact that that BAC would be taken into consideration in any review or trial. I also said it might or might not be the deciding factor But I'm sure it was brought up and factored against him. I'm glad that it was not the deciding factor.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    ...
    As to the rest of your argument, I might submit that when armed you should have a higher situational awareness than normal. Alcohol interferes with this, so if you're drinking, you're not carrying. If you (like me) always carry, then never drink, or do like I do and set a VERY low limit to your own drinking.

    Maybe you can tolerate more than me, but do you really know your own limitations well enough to be firm with your own consumption? If so, then great. But if you're wrong and your judgment is shot, the consequences are going to be severe. Maybe the person that misses that boundary won't get in legal trouble, but then laws will be passed that screw up the rights for everyone else.
    You are welcome to your opinion and to act as you please. I find your worry about "then laws will be passed that screw up the rights for everyone else." less of an issue then my,or my wife's, safety. But then I am just a selfish person who does not agree to let others do harm to me or mine. I also enjoy a glass of wine or a beer now and then and I don't see that as an either or situation. Of course YMMV.

    Ken

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    You are welcome to your opinion and to act as you please. I find your worry about "then laws will be passed that screw up the rights for everyone else." less of an issue then my,or my wife's, safety. But then I am just a selfish person who does not agree to let others do harm to me or mine. I also enjoy a glass of wine or a beer now and then and I don't see that as an either or situation. Of course YMMV.

    Ken
    Forgive me, I'm at work and have to divide my attention. I don't think I'm being as clear as I would like.

    You're not being selfish, that should be the mindset of everyone. Protecting your family is the highest responsibility in your life.

    Earlier I said that your situational awareness should be higher when armed, and that's not what I meant. I meant that your expectation of responsibility is necessarily higher when you're armed.

    Enjoying a glass of beer or wine isn't the problem, it's the people that think they can have a six pack with no ill effects. Many people can't see a limit, but three glasses of wine or 8 ounce beers will affect most people's judgment enough to get them torn apart in court.

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