What most will fail to recognize - Page 3

What most will fail to recognize

This is a discussion on What most will fail to recognize within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by azchevy As soon as Mike Quigly recognizes they are used to hunt people and atempts to disarm every LE agency in America ...

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Thread: What most will fail to recognize

  1. #31
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    As soon as Mike Quigly recognizes they are used to hunt people and atempts to disarm every LE agency in America as well using hicap mags then his stance will not be hypocritical. After all Police have weapons to defend themselves not hunt people, right Mike?
    In response to the NY Rep who quickly stated that "Guns Kill", maybe a pro-gun legislator will enter a bill that outlaws automobiles since the number of people killed by autos is astronomical. If that is seen as preposterous due to financial impact, he could outlaw liquor sales since drunk drivers kill lots of people also.

    Maybe the states ought to start putting the names of the mentally insane on the Fed roles so they would show up in the instant check at purchase.

    Capt. Art


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocan View Post
    In response to the NY Rep who quickly stated that "Guns Kill", maybe a pro-gun legislator will enter a bill that outlaws automobiles since the number of people killed by autos is astronomical. If that is seen as preposterous due to financial impact, he could outlaw liquor sales since drunk drivers kill lots of people also.
    The common rebuttal to that is that guns are designed to kill, and they're right. Invalid argument. A valid argument would be that more people are saved by having a gun available than are killed or injured, and that is an argument that can be backed up by FBI data.

  3. #33
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Live Wire:

    Politicians don't let facts get in the way of their bias.

    I guess the bottom line is " We need to police the neighbors to out the "nuts" to avoid the knee jerk reactions of the legislature.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocan View Post
    Live Wire:

    Politicians don't let facts get in the way of their bias.

    I guess the bottom line is " We need to police the neighbors to out the "nuts" to avoid the knee jerk reactions of the legislature.
    +1 and +1

    Unfortunately, I don't see any way to have stopped this event without sacrificing individual liberties. He might have been unstable, but he was never committed, he was rejected from military service for drug use, not from mental instability.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    +1 and +1

    Unfortunately, I don't see any way to have stopped this event without sacrificing individual liberties. He might have been unstable, but he was never committed, he was rejected from military service for drug use, not from mental instability.
    I'm a tad unsure that I am yet willing to buy into the "he's crazy" thing-- though maybe I've referred to him as such elsewhere here.

    He was rejected from the military as are many, for admitting to smoking some weed. Nothing truly unusual here.

    His behavior at school was sufficiently concerning that he got thrown out, but not criminal in nature. His gripe seemed to be a not uncommon one among young people, "I paid my tuition money so I deserve to pass." Some variant of that is used all the time. I'm failing so its the prof's fault so its the school's fault and I should get my money back or get a passing grade. That is basically what his math prof. indicated the BG was upset about. I've had students (40 years back) get really angry over a grade because it was my fault that they wouldn't be able to get into some advanced program.

    He planned his present shooting spree well ahead of time indicating that he was capable of planning coordinated actions, and he is together enough to have chosen to invoke his Miranda rights.

    These don't totally strike me as the behavior of someone who doesn't know right from wrong; in fact if he thought he did right he would not need to invoke Miranda because to him his crime would make sense as a righteous thing.

    I haven't looked at his writing so I have no opinion as to whether or not they are disjointed in the way that is typical of a schizophrenic's writing. Not that it matters at this point. The damage is already done and I don't see a way it could have been prevented except maybe if the political rhetoric had been different he might have chosen the school as his target or controlled his anger.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    They won't stop at 33 rounds. They will define high capacity as > 10 rounds and all my 9mm magazines are > 10 rounds. IMO if somebody wants to own 1,000 round magazine they can. I reserve my right to make fun of them, but I'll never stop them from owning one.
    I would be in trouble with that definition, the only handguns I own with <10 capacity are my 1911's and my PPKs, every thing else is at least 13+.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I'm a tad unsure that I am yet willing to buy into the "he's crazy" thing-- though maybe I've referred to him as such elsewhere here.

    He was rejected from the military as are many, for admitting to smoking some weed. Nothing truly unusual here.

    His behavior at school was sufficiently concerning that he got thrown out, but not criminal in nature. His gripe seemed to be a not uncommon one among young people, "I paid my tuition money so I deserve to pass." Some variant of that is used all the time. I'm failing so its the prof's fault so its the school's fault and I should get my money back or get a passing grade. That is basically what his math prof. indicated the BG was upset about. I've had students (40 years back) get really angry over a grade because it was my fault that they wouldn't be able to get into some advanced program.

    He planned his present shooting spree well ahead of time indicating that he was capable of planning coordinated actions, and he is together enough to have chosen to invoke his Miranda rights.

    These don't totally strike me as the behavior of someone who doesn't know right from wrong; in fact if he thought he did right he would not need to invoke Miranda because to him his crime would make sense as a righteous thing.

    I haven't looked at his writing so I have no opinion as to whether or not they are disjointed in the way that is typical of a schizophrenic's writing. Not that it matters at this point. The damage is already done and I don't see a way it could have been prevented except maybe if the political rhetoric had been different he might have chosen the school as his target or controlled his anger.
    Unstable =/= crazy. Especially criminally. I think he had some mental issues, but from what I can tell he clearly knew right from wrong and had enough clarity to plan this well ahead. I also think he didn't expect to survive.

    What I'm saying is even if he was bat-crap insane, there would have been no real way to tell well enough to prevent him from having purchased a firearm. We've all done dumb things in our lives, it's how we learn. Legally there seems to be no way to separate the stuff we've done with what he did before this event.

    Most criminals start out with something smaller before they go on a spree shooting, but not all of them. This was really the first time this guy hit the legal radar.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I'm a tad unsure that I am yet willing to buy into the "he's crazy" thing--
    He planned his present shooting spree well ahead of time indicating that he was capable of planning coordinated actions, and he is together enough to have chosen to invoke his Miranda rights.

    These don't totally strike me as the behavior of someone who doesn't know right from wrong; in fact if he thought he did right he would not need to invoke Miranda because to him his crime would make sense as a righteous thing.

    +1, he is one cold and calculating cat, the only thing he didn't calculate on was some woman snagging his magazines from him. He isn't saying anything because he didn't think of anything to say, the last round in the second mag was planned for himself IMO.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbary View Post
    What I find interesting is how the media has focused mainly on the politicians/officials who were injured or killed. The private citizens who were killed/injured barely get a mention. I find this rather telling. It seems that an us(politicians) vs. them( the average citizen) has been developing for a long time. I've already seen a politician in Kentucky get on television and say "that measures need to be taken...". The knee jerk reaction seems to be a possible outcome of this tragedy. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

    Spot on.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Frederic Bastiat

  10. #40
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    I seem to remember a question on the gun application asking if you had any mental problems? A lot of good it would do anyway so why bother?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncsteveh View Post
    +1, he is one cold and calculating cat, the only thing he didn't calculate on was some woman snagging his magazines from him. He isn't saying anything because he didn't think of anything to say, the last round in the second mag was planned for himself IMO.
    You wrote what I meant, much better than I did. Precisely. A cold and calculating "workaroundsnotallowed" who perhaps even thought that with large cap mags he could shoot his way out and escape.

    I'm concerned that all the talk about his mental state and him being crazy and the like is going to help him escape the Federal death penalty or the state death penalty; he deserves both but we can only do it one time.

  12. #42
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    No matter what happens, we are going to be in for a bumpy ride for this year. I think many will try to force some of the same laws in Cali & Mass to the rest of the states.
    If guns were so easy to have WHY didn't any one just shot the idiot? No CCW people around? Tucson is a liberal town
    God be with all who died and were injured.

    Lateck,

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You wrote what I meant, much better than I did. Precisely. A cold and calculating "workaroundsnotallowed" who perhaps even thought that with large cap mags he could shoot his way out and escape.

    I'm concerned that all the talk about his mental state and him being crazy and the like is going to help him escape the Federal death penalty or the state death penalty; he deserves both but we can only do it one time.

    I think that the best way to deal with this vermin is not to try him in court and have it stretch on for years, instead strap him into a fighter jet with the congress-woman's husband and send them out over the pacific. I guarantee the problem will be taken care of before the plane returns.

  14. #44
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    MY local news and CBS National made a point of his not being right in the head, his prior "mental" issues, and other social problems. Then they focused on AZ gun laws (or lack of them) as you can own and carry a loaded gun (without specifying handgun) almost anywhere, and even some websites that show who posts the "No Guns" signs so you can make a list to go on a shopping spree carrying a gun the whole time. A bit nauseating.

    Our rhetoric of "Criminals will still have guns" and "It's in/is the 2A" is old and beaten to death. The antis constantly get new ammo for their anti agenda. but we rarely get anything new to add to the fight. The media will only publish a CCW coming out on top if it is a real slow news day, as in the rest of the episode is full of fluff like Bob's market which has been in business for 50 years is closing.

    AZ is going to get it worst since they are in their first year of Constitutional carry, and the drunk sheriff of Pima Cnty can't do a press conference or news interview without making it political.

    Even here in CO, with our Governor Inauguration today (Tuesday) is getting all reactionary over the AZ shooting with heightened security and concerns over the security of elected officials, and the risks involved in being in such a position.

    Just need to watch the lawmakers and stay on top of them. Going to be a long time before this dust settles.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Time to buy more guns...
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    Shodan, Jujutsu

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