New NO FIREARM policy at my favorite restaurant

This is a discussion on New NO FIREARM policy at my favorite restaurant within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been frequenting a local restaurant here in Phoenix that until recently has not had a posted firearm policy. Last night, halfway through dinner, I ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 56

Thread: New NO FIREARM policy at my favorite restaurant

  1. #1
    Member Array JerryRushing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    42

    New NO FIREARM policy at my favorite restaurant

    I've been frequenting a local restaurant here in Phoenix that until recently has not had a posted firearm policy. Last night, halfway through dinner, I noticed the new "No Firearms" sticker on their door amongst their Best of Phoenix awards. After myself and four of my guests (not including our loved ones) locked our firearms in our vehicles and had returned to our seats, I decided to ask our server, "How long has the no firearm policy been in effect?"

    "Uh, for as long as I remember."

    "Really? I've been coming here once a week for six months and I've never noticed it."

    "Well, we don't want our customers getting drunk and shooting each other." - EXIT STAGE LEFT

    5 minutes later...

    "I understand that you may not be at liberty to discuss your employers policies, so if it's not too much to ask, may I speak with Mark (the owner)?"

    No answer.

    ENTERS MARK (OWNER)

    "I see you have a new 'no firearms' policy.

    "Yeah."

    "Our server informed me that it's because you don't want 'customers getting drunk and shooting each other.'"

    "Well, sure, that's a big part of it."

    "Well, absolutely. That's perfectly understandable. That's why it's illegal to drink while carrying in Arizona. Do you think that someone willing to break that law isn't willing to break another by doing it here? No. Instead, your running away people like myself, my family, and friends who sit here eating burgers, drinking $5, non-alcoholic, iced-tea."

    "Look, I know you and your girlfriend pretty well. I know you're not going to shoot up the place. I really have no problem with you and your guest carrying guns as long as they're out of sight."

    "I appreciate that, though I'm not entirely sure it's legal with that sign still on the door. And honestly, I don't feel comfortable sitting here when your door screams, COME ON IN! WE'RE ALL SITTING DUCKS!, to every crackhead that walks by."

    "I'm saying you can still carry here."

    "Sure, but even with a gun, I don't want to put myself in a position to actually have to kill anyone. It's absolutely your right to attempt to keep firearms out of your building, but I'm telling you, all you're doing by hanging that sign in the door is announcing to every criminal that no one in this restaurant can stop you from robbing and/or killing everyone. It works about as well as a Drug Free School Zone sign."

    "Well I'll give it some thought."


    What do you think?

    He did comp our $5 iced-teas

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    3,412
    You presented your side well. He needs to realize like the rest of the country that not allowing people to legally carry does nothing about the crazy, or criminal person who will disregard laws, signs etc and will endanger you.

    No concealed weapons signs only apply to us who responsibly legally carry, BGs probably don't even notice them, and if they did they still wouldn't care.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,116
    I think you presented our side very well. And you may just find that it worked. It did for me in Memphis Tennessee when we lived there. The sub shop next to where I worked posted a no weapons sign and once I talked to the owner and explained to her that the signs will only end up keeping people with permit out and the criminals, who already don't obey laws, will just ignore it and come in anyway, she agreed and took the sign down and one in another location that I didn't even know she owned.

    Presenting our side in a rational and calm way often works.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    South
    Posts
    521
    Now don't back until he takes the sign down, nice work.

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    Great job!
    Just a couple of questions; do the signs carry weight of law in AZ? (I'm assuming they do) Did you tell him you won't be back until it comes down?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #6
    Ex Member Array Kerby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norfolk Va 23518
    Posts
    491
    I like this a lot. Good for you there was no argument and you fully respected him as the owner of the establishment while giving him something to think about. Many of us and them by the way should talk like this and stop the cliché sayings on both sides we all ignore. GOOD ON YA!!

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array Saber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    2,591
    Excellent dialogue but even if he gave you express permission, chances are he would develop 'selective memory' if you had to shoot someone. I’ve often wondered if some restaurants receive a discount on their liability insurance for posting the signage.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  9. #8
    Member Array JerryRushing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    Great job!
    Just a couple of questions; do the signs carry weight of law in AZ? (I'm assuming they do) Did you tell him you won't be back until it comes down?
    To the best of my knowledge. Though, I was told by an LEO that the city park signs no longer do since AZ no longer requires a permit to CC. I'm not entirely sure if that's true as the new law does have its limitations.

    I told him, Mark, that I would call next Monday to see if my party would be able to attend, assuming the sign had been removed by then.

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oceanfront Property
    Posts
    3,850
    Just an FYI

    Regardless of him allowing you to come in with the firearm are not, please note that if the no firearm sign is posted and you have a firearm on your person in the establishment under ARS 4-229 is in violation of a class 3 misdemeanor. I am not sure how that would play out in court as it does not give leeway for owner permission in regards to the sign in 229

    4-229. Licenses; handguns; posting of notice
    A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 or who meets the criteria specified in section 13-3102, subsection D, paragraph 1 or 2 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following requirements:
    1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the liquor license posted on the licensed premises.
    2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.
    3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".
    B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.
    C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:
    1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section prior to the violation.
    2. Any one or more of the following applies:
    (a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.
    (b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.
    (c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty days prior to the violation.
    D. The department of liquor licenses and control shall prepare the signs required by this section and make them available at no cost to licensees.
    E. The signs required by this section shall be composed of block, capital letters printed in black on white laminated paper at a minimum weight of one hundred ten pound index. The lettering and pictogram shall consume a space at least six inches by nine inches. The letters comprising the words "no firearms allowed" shall be at least three-fourths of a vertical inch and all other letters shall be at least one-half of a vertical inch.
    F. This section does not prohibit a person who possesses a handgun from entering the licensed premises for a limited time for the specific purpose of either:
    1. Seeking emergency aid.
    2. Determining whether a sign has been posted pursuant to subsection A of this section.

    4-246. Violation; classification
    ...
    C. A person violating sections 4-229, subsection B or 4-244, paragraph 31 is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.

    ARS 13-707 defines a class 3 misdemeanor:
    13-707. Misdemeanors; sentencing
    A. A sentence of imprisonment for a misdemeanor shall be for a definite term to be served other than a place within custody of the state department of corrections. The court shall fix the term of imprisonment within the following maximum limitations:
    1. For a class 1 misdemeanor, six months.
    2. For a class 2 misdemeanor, four months.
    3. For a class 3 misdemeanor, thirty days.
    B. A person who is at least eighteen years of age or who has been tried as an adult and who stands convicted of any misdemeanor or petty offense, other than a traffic offense, and who has been convicted of one or more of the same misdemeanors or petty offenses within two years next preceding the date of the present offense shall be sentenced for the next higher class of offense than that for which the person currently is convicted. Time spent incarcerated within the two years next preceding the date of the offense for which a person is currently being sentenced shall not be included in the two years required to be free of convictions.
    C. If a person is convicted of a misdemeanor offense and the offense requires enhanced punishment because it is a second or subsequent offense, the court shall determine the existence of the previous conviction. The court shall allow the allegation of a prior conviction to be made in the same manner as the allegation prescribed by section 28-1387, subsection A.
    D. A person who has been convicted in any court outside the jurisdiction of this state of an offense that if committed in this state would be punishable as a misdemeanor or petty offense is subject to this section. A person who has been convicted as an adult of an offense punishable as a misdemeanor or petty offense under the provisions of any prior code in this state is subject to this section.
    E. The court may direct that a person who is sentenced pursuant to subs

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    Very well done, I'm sure he'll think hard about the possibility of lost revenue.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #11
    Member Array NIS350ZTT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    South GA
    Posts
    244
    I would follow through with it, don't go back until the sign is gone (maybe actually walk in and remind him that he isn't getting your business, possibly telling him who will be getting his business instead), or if you do go back, at least have him write a letter for permission and have it notarized. (which probably might not even hold any merit in court) I'm not in AZ, so I don't know their laws, but I know that someone's 'word' means nothing these days, and they would likely revoke saying such words if it were to benefit them (say for insurance not paying to repair after shooting up the place at a robber).

    Sounds like you kept your composure and reasonably explained your thinking.

  13. #12
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    I don't think anyone could have presented a more cogent and reasoned way to state your position and the absurdity of posting "come rob me" signs. You did an excellent job!

    Now, after being on the receiving end of such a well thought out statement of facts, the owner is certainly going to notice your absence from his business and wonder how many other customers you've taken away. I would not visit that establishment again until the sign comes down.

    I think at most, I might stop back in in six months and ask him "How's that sign working out for business?" But you might not want to even do that. Just take your business elsewhere and find some other great burger place who deserves your business.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #13
    Member Array CenCal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    288
    +1 on what Bark'n expressed. You did an excellent job!


  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Metro Detroit Area
    Posts
    1,716
    +1 to the original post.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  16. #15
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,095
    No firearms means no firearms.

    If Mark is willing to allow you and your squeeze to carry, he needs to change the sign to:

    No Firearms Unless You Receive Express Permission from the Owner.

    Oh, and then he has to give it to me in writing.....
    Last edited by MadMac; January 11th, 2011 at 06:43 PM.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Don't ask don't tell policy for gun buybacks
    By ArmyCop in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: January 1st, 2010, 12:46 PM
  2. Do you violate policy?
    By Pro2A in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: August 5th, 2008, 03:48 PM
  3. New policy at the office.
    By Deacon51 in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: September 9th, 2007, 06:35 PM
  4. Bed, Bath & Beyond policy?
    By Dimensio in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: September 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM

Search tags for this page

arizona 4-229 letter restaurant
,

ars 4-229 c 2 b

,
ars 4-229 sticker
,
does all ryan restaurants have no concealed carry
,

firearm policy at restaurant

,

no firearm policy

,

no firearms policy

,
no firearms stickers for restaurants
,
restaurant firearm policy
,
restaurants no carry poicy
,
ryan's restaurant no firearms policy
,
scottsdale no firearms policy
Click on a term to search for related topics.