Would a Judge, Jury, or LE find it excessive to carry a BUG.

This is a discussion on Would a Judge, Jury, or LE find it excessive to carry a BUG. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As of now I only carry a primary firearm. I am about to buy a pocket pistol as a BUG. Just out of curiousity, would ...

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Thread: Would a Judge, Jury, or LE find it excessive to carry a BUG.

  1. #1
    Member Array joepa150's Avatar
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    Would a Judge, Jury, or LE find it excessive to carry a BUG.

    As of now I only carry a primary firearm. I am about to buy a pocket pistol as a BUG. Just out of curiousity, would carrying more than one gun look to some people as excessive.

    I am just curious. I hope to god I never have to use my firearms but if I do, would the judge and law enforcement look at me almost like I was waiting for any chance I could to "protect" myself.

    IMO it doesn't but I can see where a lot of people may think this.

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    My opinion is this. The vast majority of people see carrying any gun at all as excessive. I would have to assume then that the vast majority of people would see carrying TWO guns as even more excessive. Many on this forum assume that the police/"victim"/judicial system is going to do everything in their power to paint you as a gun crazy whack job that was looking for a fight if you have to use your firearm. I don't agree with that point of view HOWEVER I do think there are certain thing's or behaviors that will raise a few more eyebrows then others. I think carrying 2 guns is one of those things.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    I think it would depend greatly on the persons you were interacting with. For example I know LEOs who do not like concealed carry laws because they don't normal civilians carrying, and I know others who are very much for it and question people sometimes as to why they don't consider carrying. The same with judges I know both who like 2A and those who don't. As long as you are conducting yourself in a professional manner and you are within the laws I don't see to many problems with carrying a BUG as so many on here do including myself. The DA who taught my CPL class stated that as long as you can explain something in regards to firearms to where a rational person would be like "hey ok I'm tracking that" you should be good to go. For example "Officer I'm carrying a back up firearm due to the fact that all firearms and ammunition are mechanical devices which are prone to breakage. God forbid that I ever have to use a gun in self defense, and even more so that my primary weapon does not function or for what ever reason I can not get to it, I want to have an additional means at my disposal as a last resort means in protecting myself and my loved ones from an attacker in the event I'm not able to use other means to ensure my safety." I think that would be a rational answer to most rational people. What you got to worry about is those nut jobs that don't see things as you do and think all things guns are bad.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    The only place to get the right answer to your question is a crystal ball. There is no way to tell what a jury will decide much less get together in an agreement on. It's damn scary what you hear in a jury deliberation. It doesn't matter what instructions the judge gives, it will be what the consensus is behind the closed jury room door.

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    Of course there will be many see carrying a BUG as excessive just as there are many who see carrying any gun as excessive. You will never get around that.

    However, such arguments are easily overcome and debunked. In some cases, even to the point of making the accuser look foolish for trying to make such an argument.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    The only place to get the right answer to your question is a crystal ball. There is no way to tell what a jury will decide much less get together in an agreement on. It's damn scary what you hear in a jury deliberation. It doesn't matter what instructions the judge gives, it will be what the consensus is behind the closed jury room door.
    'Concur. All bets are off when it comes to a jury trial. I suffer through my share of litigation (you get used to it in real estate), and we avoid jury trials like the plague. Even if you have an iron-clad case, there's no telling what a 'jury of your peers' is gonna come up with. I've decided to free myself from worry regarding the bullets and gun(s) that I carry, and focus on training, situational awareness and execution. There are buildings that I go into that our local police department would likely never enter without a backup. I believe I can justify a bug in those situations. I try to consider what a judge would consider 'reasonable'. A friend of mine took offense when I suggested that the skulls on the grip of the 1911 that he carries might come to haunt him, should he actually be in a defensive shooting - but who knows, down south here he might get a jury that thought it was cool. The bottom line is that we presently have laws in place that allow us to arm and protect ourselves. What tools that you choose should be based on a realistic need and your ability to proficiently work with them, not what your worried someone else might think about them.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    The question is:

    Can you articulate a reasonable explaination as to why you carry a BUG?

    Biker

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Agreed. The question is how many "reasonable" people will be on the jury.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    The question is:

    Can you articulate a reasonable explaination as to why you carry a BUG?

    Biker
    Exactly!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Your question is "to some people would it look excessive?" I think the answer is, to some people it probably would. I'm sure an overzelous DA would certainly attempt to paint such a picture. Many DAs have attempted to paint such a picture with one semi-automatic handgun used defensively. It depends on the juror as to whether such an argument is successful or whether you or your attorney could negate such an attempt.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Location. Location. Location. Where I live I would be pretty comfortable with defending such. In San Francisco, I would be scared to death.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    The question is:

    Can you articulate a reasonable explaination as to why you carry a BUG?

    Biker
    Very well put! This makes good sense Biker.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    The question is:

    Can you articulate a reasonable explaination as to why you carry a BUG?

    Biker
    Yup. That's what I meant to say.
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    Ex Member Array Kerby's Avatar
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    You know if you do not survive an attack due to the lack of a BUG, people saying "at least he was not excessive" will not comfort your family or bring you back. just a thought. As I feel from reading many post (and I am a new member) the general membership thinks like I do, not tuff guys looking for a fight or being a big shot who has a gun; however there are several people many of who are military or retired military like me LEO (s) and others who would like a chance to defend thier life home and loved ones. To that end and in that contence I think the Jury or what people think is secondary, and surviving the threat is the task at hand. Sad to think that way I would agree but it is what it is. If I had to use 10 guns in a row followed by a base ball bat to defend my family that is what I would do.... And what the thoughts of that action would be after the fact is what I would deal with after the fact.

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    Member Array dylistn's Avatar
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    If you empty your primary, then draw the bug and empty it into the dead body of the BG, there'll be lots of questions. However, in a defensive shooting, by definition, you or someone was most likely going to die, and how many guns you had should not be an issue. If you needed the bug to stop the event, what difference does it make? If you didn't, what differance would it make? It will all come down to: did you need to shoot the bg. How many guns you had could become a side issue, but should not impact the central issue: was it a legitimate SD action.
    PT145, CZ52, PM for carry. Lots of others to look at

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