The .22 as a self defense gun

This is a discussion on The .22 as a self defense gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by chiboxer I have 9 plus years working as a police officer in a major US city. I've been to lots of shootings ...

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Thread: The .22 as a self defense gun

  1. #46
    Member Array Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiboxer View Post
    I have 9 plus years working as a police officer in a major US city. I've been to lots of shootings and homicides. I've never been to a shooting with a 22LR round that resulted in homicide. That round is weak and ineffectual, and needs the most precise placement to achieve anything close to effectiveness. As far as it being better than a stick. I'm not so sure that's the case, a baseball bat to the cranium is probably a much more reliable man stopper. I have ,however, been to shooting scenes where someone sucked up 10 rounds of 22LR to the chest and was walking and talking completely unaffected. The round is not really even capable of causing massive blood loss and trauma, even with multiple rounds. No thanks.
    I'm not a LEO. I was formerly an EMT. I have had to pick up more than one dead body due to ONE completely fatal .22 round. If a .22 gets through the skull it often has enough energy left to bounce around in the brain causing massive damage. And I've seen a .22 shot to the heart that was fatal.
    As to the "two shots to the head theory".....I couldn't trust myself to be that accurate and not many shooters can. However before bashing the guy who said that better find out what his training is. I personally know very well an Army Ranger, Special Forces soldier that can do it. He has proved that he can. Of course he is the exception and has had an unbelievalbe amount of training and real life experience. Me? No way. That's why I carry a .45 with Crimson Trace Lasergrips!

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    Bigger is better, it's not going to knock him on his arse, yadda yadda yadda... look, the 22 is a legitimate defense round. It is not your duty in defending your life to end the life of your imminent threat. It is your duty to survive. You shouldn't be worried about him tearing the opposition in half with one shot, if it is what he is comfortable carrying, and shooting. The 22 is just as capable of stopping a threat, or ending a life as any other round, if the user is able to properly employ it.

    If you really want to help your friend, offer your advice, but don't be pushy, go to a range with him, see how he shoots, run some pressure drills (closing target, reload, etc) let him fire something with a bit more heft, but at the end of the day, it is his decision...

    And to all those who said that 22 is better than a stick, you forgot that it is also better than a .25acp, which I would actively try to talk anyone out of carrying.
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
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  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    A buddy of mine carries a Beretta 22 with 22 mags, it kicks like a mule and the muzzle flash is unbelievable. You would think he'd launched a missile. Inaccurate as hell but it should scare the crap out of a BG.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Here are some gel tests with .22 from a smallish pistol:

    http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/22lr/gel22lr.htm

    With FMJ ammo, you almost get to the 12 inch FBI minimum penetration depth. Almost.
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  6. #50
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Ignorance sounds more like it. A .22 can kill you just as dead as any round, but his belief that he can make a couple of head shots at the moment of truth is foolish, as is the complete trust in the rimfire round itself.


    True that.
    Ditto.

    I expect a worse case scenario which would be either the person is just about on me and I can feel/smell their breath or multiple aggressors are up close and personal. If the person is arms length away I expect to get hurt, but I will fight. That's where learning Krav Maga helps. If given distance, then I'd still want a larger caliber.

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Back in the 70's working narcotics I carried a Star.22 semi-auto because it did not look like a cop gun. I thank God I never had to use it to protect my life. I have seen several people who have died from being shot by a .22 but it took a little time sometimes days for them to succome to their wounds. Only saw one who was killed right away and he was shot several times in the heart and just laid down to die. I investigated one case where the victim was shot five times in the head with a .22 and walked several blocks to the emergency room. He lost the sight in one eye and the hearing in one ear. One round entered under his skin on his forehead and was recoveed in the back of his head never penetrating his skull but staying under the skin and traveling around his scalp. Is the .22 better than nothing ? Not by very much in my expierence.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Chief1297's Avatar
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    Put me in the camp that doesnt want to nor would I volunteer to be shot with one. With that said, I wont carry one for defensive purposes.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    While I would not depend upon the .22 LR round as a defensive caliber, that is not to say I wouldn't ever use one in a hurry or emergency.

    I have often in a pinch grabbed my .22 S&W nickel plated revolver or an FIE Titan .25 acp. Both firearms are capable of killing but I would not rely on them solely.

    We had a recent shooting in Huntington, I kind of knew the kid, have a thread on it and he supposedly shot and killed the guy with a .25 acp so a small caliber can kill in some circumstances.

    If possible, the OP here should get at least a .380 or a .38 spl.
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  10. #54
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    This debate will rage till we get Phasers! But I would have druthers for more reliable pistols AND no less than .22 mag. You can't count on either a .380 or 9mm HP's to expand. Murpheys Law runs rampant under stress conditions.

    I sometimes practice quick core and head shots with my .380. Then again I practice multiple shots to the groin/artery area to slow - then end the threat.......
    Wot part of 'public servant' don't they understand!


  11. #55
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    I can't feel safe with a .22 and I'm not sure how a judge and jury would see things if my .22 was exhibit A and I had to convince them that the .22 was my SD weapon of choice.

  12. #56
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    and here is the reason for my quote below.
    ARMY INFANTRY 11c

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  13. #57
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    I'm going to invite him to the range with me for some drills,I'm thinking helium balloons at 20 feet and definetly some moving targets at close range.I have a feeling the balloons will still be there when he's out of ammo.

  14. #58
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    Maybe we will go in the evening so he can have the benefit of his laser as well,

  15. #59
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    It would be tough to convince a jury and judge that you choose a .22 as a self defense gun based on stopping power.just my 2 cents but what if they decided it was aggrevated assault on your part instead of self defense?

  16. #60
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Count me in the "better nothing but not ideal" crowd.
    Revolver before auto. Any sort of misfire stops an auto dead, And like previous even the best .22LR's misfire frequently.
    Last week trying out a brand spanking new Ruger 22/45 had 3 miss-feeds out of 200 rounds.
    Revolvers don't have feed ramp issues, and duds just cycle to the next round.
    If somebody would make a .22wmr revolver with more than 6 rounds, That would be worth looking at, possibly for SD, but definitely for on the farm "pest" control.

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