Pizza delivery man arrested for defending himself - Page 4

Pizza delivery man arrested for defending himself

This is a discussion on Pizza delivery man arrested for defending himself within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We "do" have CCW in WI apparently. FRIDAY, July 21, 2006, 2:25 p.m. By Derrick Nunnally and Mary Zahn No charges for pizza man who ...

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  1. #46
    New Member Array Dolomite's Avatar
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    No charges for pizza man who shot teen

    We "do" have CCW in WI apparently.

    FRIDAY, July 21, 2006, 2:25 p.m.

    By Derrick Nunnally and Mary Zahn

    No charges for pizza man who shot teen

    A 35-year-old pizza delivery man who shot a 14-year-old boy he said was trying to rob him with a BB gun won't face criminal charges.

    Milwaukee County Assistant District Attorney Irene Parthum, who reviewed the July 14 incident, said Andres Vegas, of Cudahy, was acting in self-defense when he shot the boy, who police at the time said suffered non-life-threatening wounds to the shoulder, hand and buttock.

    Parthum also said Vegas, who had been delivering a pizza in the 2400 block of N. 34th St. at the time of the shooting, won't be charged for carrying a concealed firearm because he had been robbed during a delivery last year and, under state weapons law, had a reasonable belief he needed to protect himself.

    The 14-year-old and a 13-year-old who may have been his accomplice, could be charged next week in children's court, prosecutors there said.


  2. #47
    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolomite
    We "do" have CCW in WI apparently.
    Thanks for keeping us updated. I also think that the Assistant DA who made the ruling needs to run for a higher office. You guys in WI should send her a "Thank You" note for displaying great common sense.

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy
    If you are on the jury, do you thumb your nose at the law because you don't like it? He needs to be found guilty, and appeal until he can get a court to strike sown the law because his constitutional rights have been violated. The problem is a pizza guy can not afford to hire enough really great lawyers to win this battle.
    Well, "activist" judges have been changing the spirit, intent and the downright letter of the Constitution by their rulings (making case law)--if a jury of your "peers" believes you acted in the spirit and intent of the original law (a la, 2A) then is it really thumbing your nose at the law? Or, if a jury of your "peers" decides the law was not applied correctly or the defendant was morally correct, being prosecuted by an immoral law (possibly passed by immoral representatives/politicians) then I say more power to the little guy.

    If OJ could beat two murder convictions--cut the pizza guy a break.

    rant /off

    Mike in VA

  4. #49
    Member Array mkeBob's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update Dolomite. I hadn't heard the good news yet.

    I've added an additional note to my original post.......Bob
    Last edited by mkeBob; July 21st, 2006 at 08:55 PM.
    The power of the future is in its ability to inspire the present.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    great news that he escaped criminal charges. I cringe at the thought of what might happen in civil court.
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

  6. #51
    New Member Array CCCWH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy

    If you are on the jury, do you thumb your nose at the law because you don't like it? He needs to be found guilty, and appeal until he can get a court to strike sown the law because his constitutional rights have been violated. The problem is a pizza guy can not afford to hire enough really great lawyers to win this battle.
    Yes, it's called jury nullification and it's as old as this country. It is completely legal. Of course a judge will probably tell you it isn't but it is weel documented in the history of this great country. THE JURY HAS THE FINAL SAY AND IF THEY THINK THE LAW IS BAD, THEY DON"T HAVE TO ENFORCE IT!!!

    google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

  7. #52
    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    CCCWH

    Very good links and a good argument. I might just have to change my thinking about jury nullification.

    The problem comes when juries nullify for what I think are the wrong reasons, and on top of that it does not change the law it only allows that one person to get away with breaking a bad law. What about the next guy that does not get a stand up jury.

    Isn't it better to change bad laws through legislation?

    Like some one said in an earlier post ""activist" judges have been changing the spirit, intent and the downright letter of the Constitution by their rulings " and most conservatives don't like it to much so how can we then turn around and do the same thing for laws we think are bad?

    I am not sure I will have to think about it for while.
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."

  8. #53
    New Member Array CCCWH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy
    CCCWH

    Very good links and a good argument. I might just have to change my thinking about jury nullification.

    The problem comes when juries nullify for what I think are the wrong reasons, and on top of that it does not change the law it only allows that one person to get away with breaking a bad law. What about the next guy that does not get a stand up jury.

    Isn't it better to change bad laws through legislation?

    Like some one said in an earlier post ""activist" judges have been changing the spirit, intent and the downright letter of the Constitution by their rulings " and most conservatives don't like it to much so how can we then turn around and do the same thing for laws we think are bad?

    I am not sure I will have to think about it for while.
    Having juries nullify good laws is also a possibility we have to live with, so hopefully the jury is thinking properly. What we can do to help this is to properly educate our family, friends and neighbors.
    As far as bad laws, we absolutely need to be active in our state legislatures and the federal also by aligning ourselves with groups that put pressure on government to do the right thing. If there is anyone reading these posts and they are not a member of the NRA AND a local gun rights group..... then shame on them!!!

    As an example of a bad law, here in VA we have a carry law that says that you can't carry concealed in a restaurant or bar that serves alcohol. What that means is that when I take my wife and family to dinner I have to either open carry or not carry at all. Open carry obviously draws a lot of attention; (which by the way, VA is an open carry state, so we can open carry just about anywhere) so there are many people here is VA that are trying to get this law changed, but the bleeding hearts just cry out that we want to carry "guns in bars" when that is not the objective at all. But I have never known a liberal to be encumbered with too many facts.

    SOOOOO, if I were to be impaneled on a jury and someone were charged with breaking this law, I would vote not guilty even if the person stood up in court and said he did it.
    As far as activists judges go, we absolutely need to hold their feet to the fire by exerting political pressure on them when they make these rulings (or removing them in states that elect them). Another way to fight activist judges is to request a jury trial, which every American has a right to do for every charge against them (probably not moving violations though).
    So jury nullification can be an ace in the hole that we talk about here but never mention the words in the courtroom. Just mentioning those words will probably get you removed from a jury pool by the prosecution. I would only mention those words during deliberations and only when questioned by other jurors at which point I would explain the action and it's history.

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