Potential scenario at work...

This is a discussion on Potential scenario at work... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I had a vehicle accident happen a block away from my position. Obviously I activated my lights and moved over there to assist since the ...

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Thread: Potential scenario at work...

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Potential scenario at work...

    I had a vehicle accident happen a block away from my position. Obviously I activated my lights and moved over there to assist since the accident involved an employee of the site I was assigned too. The employee was ok as was the driver of the other vehicle. I called for Metro PD to assist and requested my supervisor to come on scene which is SOP. I then began to collect information from both people. The driver at fault was very polite and cooperative. When Metro began to talk to him I turn around from talking to my supervisor to observe the Metro officer removing a firearm from the gentleman's waistband. The whole time he had it and I was unaware of it. He had already given me a vibe that he was going to run so I made it impossible for him to run by directing him into a closed parking lot, and had him waiting in his vehicle to stay warm. He was very polite the whole time, but his body language was saying something else. He did have a LTCH and the gun was legal. The point I am getting at is had I known he had the weapon, I would have treated him differently from the beginning with even more caution on my point. LEO's I get why you take guns from licensed people during stops, I wish I had known at the time that I was not only allowed to ask, I was SUPPOSED to ask if he had any weapons. He could have pulled and shot me dead when I turned to walk to the other vehicle if he had wanted too, and I didn't know him from Adam. He never said hey I'm legally armed, heres my permit, nothing, I had no indication. Please inform a police officer or security officer your legally carrying if you are being detained. I should have checked but I didn't, and nothing happened. Next time I might not be so lucky. I'm really looking for feedback from LEO's here, but anyone can chime in. BTW, the reason he would not have been allowed to leave had he said hey, i'm out of here, is because I was preventing the crime of fleeing the scene of an accident, and I had PC to believe he had been drinking, based on the smell of liquour on his breath. So for those that would immediately attack that, theres my reasoning. The employee of my site was not allowed to leave because of the same reason that fleeing the scene of an accident is a crime, and I believe it is a felony in Indiana.
    Last edited by HotGuns; February 20th, 2011 at 12:24 AM. Reason: changed title
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    From a non leo perspective -

    In states that one is not required to tell the officers (lets not get into the debate over should or should not regardless of law, plenty of other threads dedicated to that), if the weapon holder is a law abiding citizen, with a permit...He's/She's one of us, you have very little to worry about. If the individual is a criminal in illegal possession/concealment, they are obviously not going to volunteer to you that they're carrying, and if you ask, they're gonna lie.

    Not sure if you have the authority to do a search/pat down in your position.
    Sticks

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  4. #3
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    In Utah we don't have to inform. If asked by an officer I will inform as I have nothing to hide. If asked by a security guard I would not inform as its none of there business especially if I am not on the property the guard is working because at that point the guard is just another citizen.

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    The driver at fault was very polite and cooperative. When Metro began to talk to him I turn around from talking to my supervisor to observe the Metro officer removing a firearm from the gentleman's waistband. The whole time he had it and I was unaware of it.
    So what?
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    He had already given me a vibe that he was going to run so I made it impossible for him to run by directing him into a closed parking lot, and had him waiting in his vehicle to stay warm. He was very polite the whole time, but his body language was saying something else. He did have a LTCH and the gun was legal.
    Ohnoes!! Was it also "registered" to him? I mean, come on, let's play the full TV line. You thought he was going to run....he didn't. You said he was polite...twice...He was probably embarrassed from getting into a car accident and ruining his evening
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    The point I am getting at is had I known he had the weapon, I would have treated him differently from the beginning with even more caution on my point.
    Shouldn't you assume that all have weapons you can't see?
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    LEO's I get why you take guns from licensed people during stops, I wish I had known at the time that I was not only allowed to ask, I was SUPPOSED to ask if he had any weapons.
    I don't. By your admission, the only thing he was at fault with was a car accident.
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    He could have pulled and shot me dead when I turned to walk to the other vehicle if he had wanted too, and I didn't know him from Adam.
    And he didn't...same could be said for anyone else on the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    He never said hey I'm legally armed, heres my permit, nothing, I had no indication.
    Is he legally required to?
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Please inform a police officer or security officer your legally carrying if you are being detained.
    No. Not unless it is legally required. My gun is my business...it has nothing to do with my speeding....or in this case, a car accident.
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    I should have checked but I didn't, and nothing happened. Next time I might not be so lucky.
    I thought you weren't allowed to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    I'm really looking for feedback from LEO's here, but anyone can chime in. BTW, the reason he would not have been allowed to leave had he said hey, i'm out of here, is because I was preventing the crime of fleeing the scene of an accident, and I had PC to believe he had been drinking, based on the smell of liquour on his breath. So for those that would immediately attack that, theres my reasoning. The employee of my site was not allowed to leave because of the same reason that fleeing the scene of an accident is a crime, and I believe it is a felony in Indiana.
    Thus, staying in your lane.
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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Total overreaction and unnecessary freak-out.

    Oh, and "my could have" makes no sense and remember that paragraph breaks are your friends.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    If asked by a security guard I would not inform as its none of there business especially if I am not on the property the guard is working because at that point the guard is just another citizen.
    This may be why you were getting a bad vibe from the guy, if a security guard approached me on a location he isn't even assigned to trying to assist with an accident and detain me I'd probably give you a vibe you wouldn't like.

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    The first question that comes to my mind is was did this take place on the property you are gaurding? If so you have some authority there, depending on state law. If not your just another civilian.

    I wish I had known at the time that I was not only allowed to ask, I was SUPPOSED to ask if he had any weapons.
    Is this by state law, or company SOP? While I would inform an LEO (without whether required or not) I was carrying, I would not inform a security gaurd, even if asked.

    Sorry, but lights on your company vehicle and a uniform does not make you an LEO. Don't expect to be treated like one.
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    "My could have been fatal mistake last night"

    The title of your post betrays your mindset.

    I must say that I am somewhat offended by your assumption that this man posed more of a threat to you simply because he carried a concealed weapon. If he was legal and had a permit then he likely posed way less threat to you than the average employee who is not licensed to carry.

    Armed good guys are on your side!

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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Premature Eject-ulation.........IMO.

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    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    While I would inform an LEO (without whether required or not) I was carrying, I would not inform a security gaurd, even if asked.

    Sorry, but lights on your company vehicle and a uniform does not make you an LEO. Don't expect to be treated like one.
    I must agree with the above. Although some security guards may in fact be assigned to jobs in dangerous places, they are nevertheless private citizens. They have no police power and may find themselves in trouble when they act or believe that they do.
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    I'd really want to know a great deal more about the nature of your job and where the accident happened relative to your official duties, and also----what does your state law say about how accidents on private property are handled. I think around here unless someone decides they need to call the police, it remains a private deal between the two drivers.

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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    I'm with sticks. You make it sound like all of us should be volunteering information that has nothing to do with the purpose of the stop. It was a traffic accident. Big deal. It's not like you heard shots being fired and responded. I don't walk by the mall cops and say, just so you know, I'm carrying concealed.

    And I'm with shockwave, too, plus I'll take it a step further... at least that was easier reading through than the folks who don't use the space bar inbetween sentences. You know who you are ;^)

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    Hopefully, this scene isn't taking place in an attorney's office today:

    Driver: "I was in an auto accident leaving work the other day, and now my back hurts. By chiropractor says I'll need 17.5 years of weekly treatments."
    Attorney: "Where did the accident happen, and how"
    Driver: "I was headed out of the lot and this guy hit me. Then then security guy, Officer Chris, showed up and had us move our cars and give him information while we waited for the police."
    Attorney (drooling slightly): "An agent of Deep Pockets corporation ordered you to get into your car and drive it without a medical evaluation? My dear man, we'll fight for you. (thinking - A MIST* case with deep pockets! They'll settle for a nice chunk of change in short order)"

    I'd be more worried about that than the fact that a person you contacted was lawfully carrying a gun.

    Matt

    (* MIST - Minimal Impact Soft Tissue - PI lawyer-speak for a case the attorney knows is rubbish, but it's hard to prove either way and the opposing insurer will probably pay to make go away)
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    Member Array GettingOld2's Avatar
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    I'm curious, were you "armed" security at the time or "unarmed"?

    If you are unarmed security, it would seem that asking for a weapon could not result in an improved situation.

  16. #15
    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    Seems very similar to my own "could have been" fatal mistake last night.
    I walked through a neighborhood park under lots of trees with big branches. At any moment one could have fallen on me.

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