National Reciprocity part Deux

This is a discussion on National Reciprocity part Deux within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If this passes what would stop places like CA, NY, etc... from going from strict may issue to no issue just so they don't have ...

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Thread: National Reciprocity part Deux

  1. #46
    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    If this passes what would stop places like CA, NY, etc... from going from strict may issue to no issue just so they don't have to recognize out of state permits?

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I'm not willing to let debatable constitutional issues get in the way of a real world solution.
    Wow!!! If you really mean what you say here, of what value is the Constitution?
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I agree on this. . . it's a good start, and I'd like to be able to carry in California which I KNOW will not happen in my lifetime if it's left up to states choosing their own reciprocity rules.
    if this proposed bill makes it to law, you would still have to carry under CA's law. This would mean, I believe, an empty gun with a mag somewhere else. This may be worse than going unarmed in some circumstances.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie1826 View Post
    If this passes what would stop places like CA, NY, etc... from going from strict may issue to no issue just so they don't have to recognize out of state permits?
    Hopefully their electorate would not allow this. Practically, nothing will stop them - votes matter.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Wow!!! If you really mean what you say here, of what value is the Constitution?
    K, the word "debatable" was in what I wrote. I don't accept your understanding of the constitution and the tenth A as being correct. And if you are correct then an amendment is in order.

    We can not be "one nation indivisible" with the constitution interpreted as you see it.

    Anyway, this is obviously not the place for that discussion. As I said, we desperately need a LEOSA equivalent for the CHL holder and I'll take the proposed law. 2A is now binding on the states, and this proposal is one way of driving the anti-states toward following 2A.

    BTW-- uniformity of law would be a boon to the economy. Companies which operate in various states wouldn't have to hire huge law firms to keep them current on the latest twists and turns of the various state legislatures. We preach the benefits of the rule of law to other countries, but you don't have a rule of law with the laws are chaotic.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    K, the word "debatable" was in what I wrote. I don't accept your understanding of the constitution and the tenth A as being correct. And if you are correct then an amendment is in order.

    We can not be "one nation indivisible" with the constitution interpreted as you see it.

    Anyway, this is obviously not the place for that discussion. As I said, we desperately need a LEOSA equivalent for the CHL holder and I'll take the proposed law. 2A is now binding on the states, and this proposal is one way of driving the anti-states toward following 2A.

    BTW-- uniformity of law would be a boon to the economy. Companies which operate in various states wouldn't have to hire huge law firms to keep them current on the latest twists and turns of the various state legislatures. We preach the benefits of the rule of law to other countries, but you don't have a rule of law with the laws are chaotic.
    Hop - you are right, we will not agree on this issue. I saw your "debatable" and left it in the quote. The problem here is that everything is open to debate. If we say, because we can debate it, let's ignore the constitution, we would not have a rule of law. I reject your assertion that we don't have a rule of law simply because we have different laws in different states. Further, "one nation, indivisible" is in the pledge, not the constitution.

    We won't agree, I will not debate this further on this thread - peace, out.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    But then the states that are big on issuing non-resident permits will loose a nice revenue stream.

    Oh well.

    It would be nice to not have to play the "which states honor my permit, and how do I get from here to there" game.
    Ha, I nver thought of that way, but what a cool game! Can you imagine going into AAA for a trip plan and needing them to use the reciprocity map to get you from point A to point B with as little hassle as possible? Think of the possibilities .... that could be fun.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    if this proposed bill makes it to law, you would still have to carry under CA's law. This would mean, I believe, an empty gun with a mag somewhere else. This may be worse than going unarmed in some circumstances.
    That's only for open carry, if you have a carry permit in Cali, you can carry loaded. The list of places 'off limits' is extensive and varies by jurisdiction though.

  10. #54
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    At the same time, I feel this could provide an obstacle to states like WI and IL which have no permits at all right now, because if they do decide to go for a permit system, not only do they have to think about their own citizens but also citizens from other states. Not a big deal, sure, but for anti-gun politicians - a huge deal.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    At the same time, I feel this could provide an obstacle to states like WI and IL which have no permits at all right now, because if they do decide to go for a permit system, not only do they have to think about their own citizens but also citizens from other states. Not a big deal, sure, but for anti-gun politicians - a huge deal.
    I was just thinking about this, but it does make it more likely that when they DO pass CCW, they are more likely to be shall-issue than may issue, and they have a lot of momentum toward CCW.

  12. #56
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    I like this bill. It seems well written. It is a win for American freedom. The federal government rarely adopts laws that place less restrictions and give its people the constitutional rights they are supposed to be guaranteed. I generally dislike federal laws, and I am pro states rights. We often have reason to be wary of them. They are long, full of pork, have hidden agendas, and are usually power grabs. This bill is short (only 1 page), to the point, has no pork, and has no hidden agenda. This is a step in the right direction.

  13. #57
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    This will happen "WHEN PIGS FLY"
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    That's only for open carry, if you have a carry permit in Cali, you can carry loaded. The list of places 'off limits' is extensive and varies by jurisdiction though.
    Thanks for the correction.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by IWLAFART View Post
    This will happen "WHEN PIGS FLY"
    Well, in Cincinnati we have the Flying Pig Marathon every year, so maybe by this year's "Pig" :)
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    That's what Heller and McDonald established. The 2A applies to the states and is not negotiable and cannot be legislated away.States cannot deny you an enumerated right as it exists in the Constitution.
    Unless McDonald is overturned in the future, after a zillion more lower-court decisions complying with it, McDonald will BE constitutional carry. Everywhere.

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