National Reciprocity Action Needed - Page 4

National Reciprocity Action Needed

This is a discussion on National Reciprocity Action Needed within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by press1280 I agree except with one clarification-Heller didn't necessarily say that requiring permits were OK, but I don't think there has ever ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    I agree except with one clarification-Heller didn't necessarily say that requiring permits were
    OK, but I don't think there has ever been a successful challenge to permitting for handguns, and I truly don't think that either Congress or the Supremes are going to strike down permitting in favor of "constitutional carry." So we have to live with what we have, and improve it which this proposed bill does. All it really does is tell all the states to act like MO and recognize any permit issued by any lawful governmental authority.

    Ordinary politics aside, we have to have more uniformity, more consistency, and more flexibility to travel with, transport, and even transfer guns across the country. The restriction may be mostly a nuisance and mostly affect small numbers of people, but the gotchya's can carry huge penalties.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    All it really does is tell all the states to act like MO and recognize any permit issued by any lawful governmental authority.
    Hop - this is not quite accurate. What the bill would do is to tell all states to treat out of state permitted persons as they would if they were citizens of the state. If the state chooses not to issue permits to its citizens and prohibit carry by same, your permit will be of no value in that state - IL, WI, DC. The bill would, if actually enacted and applied, get you closer to where you want to be, but it does not go all the way.
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  3. #48
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    Instead of more rules and regulations to "Control" law abiding citizens it would be BEST to concentrate on punishing those who break existing laws in a way that minimizes repeat criminal activity.
    Governmental agencies, federal, state and local. spend way too much time and money attempting to control that which needs no control and way too little time protecting that which needs protection.
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    I don't think that this is a knee jerk reaction. We have been slowly and surely "regulated" for the last 100 years and we are guilty of allowing it to happen. If the Feds pass a law and the socialist states like IL, CA, NY, etc. do not follow along then the next step will be some kind of action. The premise sounds good but in reality we should not even have to have permits. The best way to counter this is to keep up the states movement such as AZ, AK, MT, and others that have provided Constitutional carry. It will take some time but it keeps the Feds out of the picture. The government is supposed to be "we the people" not we do unto the people!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hop - this is not quite accurate. What the bill would do is to tell all states to treat out of state permitted persons as they would if they were citizens of the state. If the state chooses not to issue permits to its citizens and prohibit carry by same, your permit will be of no value in that state - IL, WI, DC. The bill would, if actually enacted and applied, get you closer to where you want to be, but it does not go all the way.
    Yes, and thanks for the clarification.

    If this bill passed, NJ, CA, CT would immediately become easy. Yes, IL, WI, and DC will remain problematic until they give their own citizens the rights they should have.

    D.C. will remain problematic anyway, as the law talks about state's recognizing other's permits---so D.C. of course gets left out.

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    I admit I'm a little legal ignorant, law school wasn't part of my plan. But my laymen's mind has wondered for some time, why are States not already required to recognize CCW permits based on the Constitutions Full Faith and Credit clause. The same law requires them to accept my drivers license, and contracts etc etc etc.. Why does this not apply to my concealed carry license?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhamrichard View Post
    I admit I'm a little legal ignorant, law school wasn't part of my plan. But my laymen's mind has wondered for some time, why are States not already required to recognize CCW permits based on the Constitutions Full Faith and Credit clause. The same law requires them to accept my drivers license, and contracts etc etc etc.. Why does this not apply to my concealed carry license?
    Because a CCW or "permit" is just the state REGULATING your 2A RKBA (as Heller says they can ) - You already HAVE the Right - they don't grant you the right.

    A Drivers License is a PRIVILEGE which is GRANTED to you by the STATE.
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    Doesn't make any sense does it? They accept a granted privilege but not a constitutional right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken45 View Post
    Do you realize that the acceptance of driver's licenses is because of an agreement among the states (just like current CCW reciprocity), and NOT because of federal action?
    Duhh... yeah! The point I was alluding to is that I can drive a one ton vehicle at lethal speeds, risk my life on the highways, etc. Why not carry with my Florida license? I spend summers in New York and can't even THINK about a gun. Can't buy ammo, can't go to a range to rent one, can't hold one in a store, etc. But I can ride down the highway...???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Yes, and thanks for the clarification.

    If this bill passed, NJ, CA, CT would immediately become easy. Yes, IL, WI, and DC will remain problematic until they give their own citizens the rights they should have.

    D.C. will remain problematic anyway, as the law talks about state's recognizing other's permits---so D.C. of course gets left out.
    DC will be covered because its statute (statute is the key word in the legislation) is still in place even though there are no carry permits. WI and IL are out as of this moment, but that may change very soon.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    DC will be covered because its statute (statute is the key word in the legislation) is still in place even though there are no carry permits. WI and IL are out as of this moment, but that may change very soon.
    Good, then maybe we'll get cc on Amtrak?

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    I reject almost everything the federal government does. They spend money they don't have interfering in affairs that they can't be effective in while restricting our rights.

    That being said, I'm fully supporting this bill. My girlfriend has family in California. Anyone care to tell me the odds that I'll be able to carry in CA if I wait for reciprocity agreements? As long as nobody amends this bill with some kind of 'standard', I'm good with it. Of course, I harbor no illusions on it passing. It'll pass the House easily, the Senate probably, but the odds of His Excellency Barack Obama signing it are about the same as a reciprocity agreement with California.

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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I reject almost everything the federal government does. They spend money they don't have interfering in affairs that they can't be effective in while restricting our rights.

    That being said, I'm fully supporting this bill. My girlfriend has family in California. Anyone care to tell me the odds that I'll be able to carry in CA if I wait for reciprocity agreements? As long as nobody amends this bill with some kind of 'standard', I'm good with it. Of course, I harbor no illusions on it passing. It'll pass the House easily, the Senate probably, but the odds of His Excellency Barack Obama signing it are about the same as a reciprocity agreement with California.
    I think Obama would sign it, if for nothing else then to help with his election campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    I think Obama would sign it, if for nothing else then to help with his election campaign.
    You think he thinks it'll make any difference? Or is it going to be better for him politically to stick to his base?

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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I don't want the federal government to regulate ANYTHING. PASS
    Ditto!

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