I'm on drugs - Page 4

I'm on drugs

This is a discussion on I'm on drugs within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Grantspastor Unless you're on a heavy-duty dosage (It comes in different strengths) and/or assuming you take only as directed..... IMO Vicodin shouldn't ...

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Thread: I'm on drugs

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grantspastor View Post
    Unless you're on a heavy-duty dosage (It comes in different strengths) and/or assuming you take only as directed..... IMO Vicodin shouldn't impair your abilities

    Please note: IANAL...nor am I a physician. My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. It just doesn't affect me in any way that would make it inadvisable to handle or carry firearms
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    In my very limited experience, Vicodin didn't do anything at all to impair my judgment, but it made me sleepy. Pain was a bigger factor affecting my judgment.

    The half life is 3.8 hours. This means that about 90% + is gone in around 16 hours after your last dose. (1/2 gone in 4 hours; 75% gone in 8 hours; ca. 88% gone in 12 hrs. etc. The effect should be gone much sooner. This is different than the amount of time its use can be detected by a drug screen. That is something different from effective dose.

    Based solely on limited personal experience, if I had pain sufficient to use Vicodin, I'd likely not be trying to go about any business outside the home. I'd not hesitate to carry or keep one near, while in my own home.

    YMMV.


    ^^^I am in this camp on this one^^^^^^^^


    Although I side with msgt/ret
    insofar as the constipation goes.

    When I had back surgery in '08, they had me on vicodin for 1.5 days and I couldn't go #2 for all the tea in China.
    I said get this junk away from me and get me regular Ibuprofen.
    I HATE the Addictive stuff, and cannot see what the draw is.


    Good luck , and hope you don't need to rely on it for long.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    I found that when I was taking Percocet (I can't remember which one is Hydra and which one is Oxy), if I was in pain when I took one I felt no effect besides the pain relief. If I took one when I wasn't in 'enough' pain, I would get really loopy. It didn't seem to affect my judgment tho, just my coordination and speech.

    Also, whether it was the pain relief or the loopiness, the effects were gone within a few hours, though if I took a followup dose too soon, I could definitely tell I'd overdone it.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    I was wondering exactly the same thing regarding "under the influence" too, in the above referenced C.R.S. (Colorado Revised Statutes) (not my state)
    Funny, I've spent hours and hours reading all the Colorado statutes related to firearms and use of force and that never even occurred to me until this thread.

    I don't drink, and I don't do illegal drugs, ergo 18-12-206-d and related CRS were not something to lock into my head. Now I need to get a consult...again, because I have 1 and only 1 prescription...1 lousy class 3 prescription.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  4. #49
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    A lot of interesting points brought up about the effects of different drugs, the real problem is just how do you determine if one is under the influence of drugs. Alcohol is simple, a breath or blood test and most states if you are above .08 then you are under the influence. Since not everyone has the same reaction to different drugs how can you decide if one is truly impaired or not, as an example many OTC cold and allergy meds cause drowsiness which is just as dangerous as drunk driving yet would someone be convicted of DUI for there use.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    A lot of interesting points brought up about the effects of different drugs, the real problem is just how do you determine if one is under the influence of drugs. Alcohol is simple, a breath or blood test and most states if you are above .08 then you are under the influence. Since not everyone has the same reaction to different drugs how can you decide if one is truly impaired or not, as an example many OTC cold and allergy meds cause drowsiness which is just as dangerous as drunk driving yet would someone be convicted of DUI for there use.
    Not to move too far OT, the issue of what constitutes impairment is one which has been widely ignored by the anti-drug warriors.
    We have 60 % of our employers testing for drug use. The tests are positive only 1% of the time, and no one really knows what the rate of false positives is. Moreover, detection of a drug certainly is evidence that someone did something illegal in the immediate past-- used weed, took cocaine etc.,-- but it does not speak to impairment at all.

    Now it may make sense to screen out people who deliberately violate the law by taking illegal substances, whether they are impaired or not, but for the purposes of safe gun handling, impairment is the key issue.

    There are plenty of easy ways to determine impairment. Simple computer games can be readily adapted to the purpose. But our fixation on detecting drugs has blinded us to the real piece of information needed most.

    Were I a business person I would screen my new hires with a hair test because it has a 90 day look back and it would enable me to determine if the person used any of the major drugs of abuse during the last quarter. After that, depending on the job function, I would turn to Nintendo and Wii for tests of mental acuity and physical coordination. There are many reasons people come to work impaired and some of them have nothing at all to do with drugs. They may be running a fever but fear taking the day off, being one example. They may have had a sleepless night due to family issues, and that can be a dangerous impairment.

    Our society has blindly focused on the wrong thing--- at least with respect to most employment.

  6. #51
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    I think gun forum threads can be useful sometimes, but when seeking legal or medical advice, this is NOT the place to come. That drug may not have an adverse effect on others, but I'm not in a position to determine how it effects you, (and neither is anyone wlse here.)

    As for anyone other than you knowing whether you are ready to carry a gun?

    I have no idea whether you are, or are not in a condition to carry a gun (and neither does anyone else on this forum).

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by brabham78 View Post
    I think gun forum threads can be useful sometimes, but when seeking legal or medical advice, this is NOT the place to come. That drug may not have an adverse effect on others, but I'm not in a position to determine how it effects you, (and neither is anyone wlse here.)

    As for anyone other than you knowing whether you are ready to carry a gun?



    I have no idea whether you are, or are not in a condition to carry a gun (and neither does anyone else on this forum).
    I have to go with this answer. I'm 2 months out of a total hip replacement(my second) and while taking the perkocet(right hip) and oxycodone(left hip) the toys were locked in the safe. I'm sure I was a might too happy for rational thinking for days after the last doses, but I didn't think so at the time. My wife assured me otherwise!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    I have to go with this answer. I'm 2 months out of a total hip replacement(my second) and while taking the perkocet(right hip) and oxycodone(left hip) the toys were locked in the safe. I'm sure I was a might too happy for rational thinking for days after the last doses, but I didn't think so at the time. My wife assured me otherwise!
    Happy people don't cause trouble. Angry disinhibited people do.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Happy people don't cause trouble. Angry disinhibited people do.
    And pot smokers are generally happy.

    Sorry, had to toss that in.

    Yes indeed, this is a slippery slope since the only "substance" that they have a verifiable tried and tested detection for impairment is Alcohol. Everything else is "Yup, it's in the system" but they won't admit if there is any sort of impairment.

    CO is working on passing legislation for a "legal limit" on pot that is by and large to low - READ - Shows over the limit IIRC 48 hours after usage. Yes Pot is illegal at the Fed level, even though we have the medical MJ in the state books, but it is the precedent that I am concerned about if they start going after class 3 prescriptions.

    This goes the wrong way, we have an entire medical [patient] community that will be rendered defenseless because of pain killer prescriptions. Someone being a victim of a home invasion for their RX supply is not unheard of.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    And pot smokers are generally happy.

    Sorry, had to toss that in.

    Yes indeed, this is a slippery slope since the only "substance" that they have a verifiable tried and tested detection for impairment is Alcohol. Everything else is "Yup, it's in the system" but they won't admit if there is any sort of impairment.

    CO is working on passing legislation for a "legal limit" on pot that is by and large to low - READ - Shows over the limit IIRC 48 hours after usage. Yes Pot is illegal at the Fed level, even though we have the medical MJ in the state books, but it is the precedent that I am concerned about if they start going after class 3 prescriptions.

    This goes the wrong way, we have an entire medical [patient] community that will be rendered defenseless because of pain killer prescriptions. Someone being a victim of a home invasion for their RX supply is not unheard of.
    Our anti-drug warriors continue to confuse legal from illegal drugs, and detection from impairment. Anything, including literally water, can be taken to a point where there is impaired judgment.

    We (society) have two things we need to know about a person if we are going to trust them with a gun. 1) Are they criminals. And yes, taking any of the big 5 (cocaine, heroine, weed (even with prescription), meth, forgot the last one, maybe PCP, is by definition criminal under Federal law. 2) Are they mentally impaired such that they can't make normal decisions. Slight sleepiness doesn't equal poor judgment. Valid use of prescription medicines does not necessarily equate to impaired judgment.
    Being slightly drowsy might (and should) cause you to not drive, but it won't impair your judgment such that you can't know if you are being attacked or not.

    What is occurring now is that folks (law makers) are mentally confusing the major substances of abuse with prescription medicines. Deliberately doing so makes good business sense for the testing companies, and rotten public policy for the rest of us.

    Sticks wrote: "CO is working on passing legislation for a "legal limit" on pot that is by and large to low - READ - Shows over the limit IIRC 48 hours after usage." You can bet that there are two things pushing such legislation forward. Irrational fear and money. The drug testing industry is a multi-billion dollar a year BUSINESS and it seeks out every opportunity (as do most businesses) to expand their market base. E.g., pushing for nicotine testing in some companies. Pushing for nicotine testing amongst teens.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Right now I am on Hydrocodone. Got tonsils removed Thursday. My youngest and I play catch (yes in the house) with a little softer than nerf football. Funny thing is after the first two days I don't feel the buzz when I take my meds. Throat just doesn't hurt as much. But the imparement definitely shows when I try to hit my boy on a crossing patern. I can't lead him properly and when he throws it back my drops are up about seventy percent.
    Weapons are secured and truck still sitting at the hospital. That is where they are going to stay until I am off this stuff. Some folks might feel they are ok to function on this stuff but I know I am not.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Right now I am on Hydrocodone. Got tonsils removed Thursday. My youngest and I play catch (yes in the house) with a little softer than nerf football. Funny thing is after the first two days I don't feel the buzz when I take my meds. Throat just doesn't hurt as much. But the imparement definitely shows when I try to hit my boy on a crossing patern. I can't lead him properly and when he throws it back my drops are up about seventy percent.
    Weapons are secured and truck still sitting at the hospital. That is where they are going to stay until I am off this stuff. Some folks might feel they are ok to function on this stuff but I know I am not.
    Comment for you. You assert that you are physically unable to perform in the game with your son as you would normally. That does not mean that your judgment is impaired such that you would not know right from wrong, an attack from a friendly gesture, or that you would be disinhibited and fly into an angry rage and misuse your gun.

    I bet that right now, even as less than fully coordinated, you could deal with an attempted home invasion. You would know that the invader is real and not mistake your BIL for an invader. You would know that you and yours are in mortal danger, and you would more than likely, notwithstanding a bit of physical impairment per coordination, be able to operate your gun and defend yourself.

    I'm not criticizing your decisions as they may well be wise for you, but I am saying that you likely have more full control than you think, and that would be demonstrable in a real emergency. Adrenaline does wonderful things.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Right now I am on Hydrocodone. Got tonsils removed Thursday. My youngest and I play catch (yes in the house) with a little softer than nerf football. Funny thing is after the first two days I don't feel the buzz when I take my meds. Throat just doesn't hurt as much. But the imparement definitely shows when I try to hit my boy on a crossing patern. I can't lead him properly and when he throws it back my drops are up about seventy percent.
    So, you're saying when you're doped up on drugs, you still play better than me?

    Oh noes, I'm CARRYING A FIREARM AND I CAN'T THROW A FOOTBALL

  14. #59
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    What I am saying is that while I don't feel any different I know that my fine motor coordination is impared. I may still be able to judge a threat correctly but I am not so sure I could put the rounds on target. Perhaps with more time I could adjust, but I don't expect to be on this stuff long enough for it to be worth investigating.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What I am saying is that while I don't feel any different I know that my fine motor coordination is impared. I may still be able to judge a threat correctly but I am not so sure I could put the rounds on target. Perhaps with more time I could adjust, but I don't expect to be on this stuff long enough for it to be worth investigating.
    If we judged the ability to carry on a person's fine motor skills, I'd be without. Sure, I can pass our exceptionally easy licensing test, but I'm no competitive target shooter.

    To my way of thinking it is the substances which disinhibit us so that we do things we wouldn't normally do that are concerning. Alcohol of course is the major example of a substance which disinhibits many. Although, I must say that I think it is often an excuse for someone engaging in rotten behavior and not the cause. Me, when I'm drunk (which is an exceptionally rare event), I just sleep. Happy contented people don't become mean drunks. Mean people become mean drunks.

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